Black Men & Childhood Sexual Abuse

How can the harmful stereotypes surrounding Black Men prevent recognition, understanding and healing from sexual abuse? Join Sophia and filmmaker Davy as they discuss disclosing as an adult, remembering the past, adultification biases, and the journey to healing.

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I haven't told many people

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about what happened to me as a, you know, as a boy.

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And so telling a group of strangers,

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one of them being in Denmark, you know,

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was definitely not on my list of things to do that day.

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Can you imagine me trying to be a tough guy, screw facing, little skinny.

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I'm not a screw face.

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Like, would you have ever thought you'd be sitting on this sofa?

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No. You know what I mean?

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Say, well, I mean, it is my sofa, but.

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Welcome to Secrets Worth Sharing, a series all about having approachable

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conversations on child sexual abuse but with serious joy.

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I'm Sophia, a designer and a survivor.

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And today's episode is all about child sexual abuse and black men.

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So for that, I'm joined by.

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My dear friend Davy. Hi. -Hi Sophia

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Hey, everyone.

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I'm Davy Lazare

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I'm a writer, director, and filmmaker.

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I'm actually also filming this right now.

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And yeah, I'm just really excited to share my story today.

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Really grateful for the space to share my story.

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And, yeah, let's let's get into it.

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So I should just highlight to the podcast, Davy's not only our guest today,

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but also the cameraman, the sound guy and the lighting guy because we're doing

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all of this is his house. It's all right.

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So there's no crew today.

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So Davy, as everybody.

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That's me and one man band.

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I hope you nice to start talking about how we met,

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because I think even that and how I found you and told the story was quite unusual.

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So we met because we both applied for Utopia,

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which is this like diversity and inclusion consultancy.

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And every year they gave some money to creatives

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to tell stories that were quite marginalized.

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And yours was about the police film right? -Yeah.

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Absolutely. Yeah.

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So yeah.

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So I got two grand which didn't cover the whole sort of budget,

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but it was a massive difference.

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It covered all of the, the equipment hire for my short film,

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which is called You fit the description and yeah.

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You know, like, honestly like,

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if I didn't have that two grand, we wouldn't have any equipment

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to shoot the film because all of the budget was already gone and spent.

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So it was, you know, it was a lifesaver, really.

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And, the film amazingly went on to win three awards in three different countries.

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We made it into like, eight festivals.

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Yeah. It was

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it was a wild ride and it was incredible to just have this, this support.

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And obviously through that I met you as well.

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So, you know, so it just kind of kept on giving.

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Yeah. Honestly it was it was so.

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Nice to hear about your film

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because your film was all about challenging police behaviors as well.

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Yeah.

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For black men, it's very, very up to what we're talking about today.

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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

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And then yeah, I got the two grand to start shooting secrets

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and it's exactly the same. Like, didn’t cover the whole thing.

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But got me a crew, which is well, it's.

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A start. As a start. Yeah.

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And then maybe like a year later.

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A year after I got the filming they bought some of us together to kind of share

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what we'd want done with the money I guess.

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To make sure that we didn't just go on a jolly with it

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Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Like show us the results. Yeah. Yeah.

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And then you shared a bit about your film, I shared a bit about secrets,

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and we were in a video call I remember so strongly because I was in Denmark

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and it was the hottest day of the year in Denmark, and I'm just sweating, sweating.

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And to be honest, I was a bit like,

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I cannot be assed with this call right now.

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So that's the cool to end.

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You stop piping up and then you kind of like, introduce yourself.

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After I spoken about secrets.

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Yeah, it was one of those moments where it was kind of like, do I or don't I?

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You know, and I haven't told many people

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about what happened to me as a, you know, as a boy.

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And so telling a group of strangers,

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one of them being in Denmark, you know,

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was definitely not on my list of things to do that day.

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But I just thought, let's do it.

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I just thought to do it, you know, just because I think part of the healing

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process for me and for everyone who hasn't kind of been able to speak about,

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you know, what they've been through

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is to talk about it is to not have it be sort of swept under the rug.

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So for them to do it and then, you know, I felt very safe.

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I supported in this group of people who were all doing amazing things.

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And what was happening to me is so quiet in terms of

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it's a thing that it's not talked about and tucked away.

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It's just amazing to hear that someone was doing something,

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you know, out in the open.

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And I just thought, I need to get on board.

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It's so interesting to hear

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what was going through your head that day, because when I was in that call,

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they were like, okay, Sophia what is Secrets Worth Sharing?

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Can you introduce it?

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And I said, oh, I really approachable advice about child sex abuse.

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but I try really hard to focus on intersections with different identities

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and things like that. And, you know.

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I knew you were going to say something.

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I didn't necessarily I don't have a survivor sense on me.

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Yeah, that's not a thing I did.

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Yeah, well, I knew you're going.

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To say something because suddenly I was like, I saw your face on the screen.

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And it kind of like showed a bit of intrigue.

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And I kept talking and then

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a couple of people put their hands up to ask me questions about it.

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And I remember because somebody also had a story to share

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and they kind of sort of spoke.

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And then you kind of went back into the background.

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And I'm so glad that the person leading it.

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Yeah. You remember. Yeah.

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I was like, oh, Davy, you had your hand up, but then you put it down.

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Do you have something to say?

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And again, it just goes to show like the power of just like noticing

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those little moments because I think imagine if she didn't have done that

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I think I would of dm’d you after because I could tell from your face but

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The fact that she did that allowed you also

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to have the space to be properly heard.

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Yeah. And to end up here today.

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Yeah. No for sure. Yeah. Yeah. No it's. Wow.

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Yeah. You're right.

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You know it's, it's yeah.

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Again it was very much a kind of it could have,

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it was a 50/50 thing, you know the whole, the whole thing.

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Yeah.

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Even with me

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not really getting the chance to speak and then being given it again, you know.

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As you said, it's not a story that you shared often.

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I mean, obviously now we jump in to do it on camera

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But like in those moments, you are testing the water.

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It shouldn't be on you to consistently be like, oh, I've got something to say

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and to find the right moment and to bring it up

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independently like you'd already met

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half way by putting your hand up to share the story.

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And, you know, in that split second, it could have really easily been taken away.

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If you got interrupted, then you're like, okay, crew it moments gone.

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So just a little bit of a learning for people out there

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because you never know, someone might be trying to tell you something.

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And it's not exactly the most easy topic to bring up, is it?

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That moment is quickly slipped by, and you don't take that attentive moment

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to observe and think, oh, were they going to say something related to that?

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And maybe it might just be to ask more about the project.

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Yeah.

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Or the thing you've seen, or the story you've seen on the news or whatever.

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And then gradually, gradually, gradually, you might find that moment to sort of

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speak out. Yeah.

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Yeah. So yeah, I'm.

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Super, super glad, like sitting on your gorgeous sofa look at it.

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So then after that we had a phone call.

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And I think that phone call was really powerful

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because it was my chance to get to know you properly as well,

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and you started to share a little bit about your story.

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Because because the phone call we had,

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it was quite recently after the zoom as well.

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Right?

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It was -’Cause I was still in Denmark

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Yeah. -What a trip

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Yeah.

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It was I remember it so well because I remember

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because obviously it's a, it's a thing that I find hard to talk about.

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My if I had to talk about this in front of my partner as well,

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I guess we can talk more about that.

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But yeah, I remember, like, leaving my house to go and walk to this

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sort of nearby, like the the grimy playground.

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You've ever seen in your life, like just grimiest playground you’ve ever seen in your life

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And I'm walking around, it's been doing laps, talking to you in Denmark,

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you know, and sort of telling you my my story, you know?

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I mean, and again, you know, just like going into a little bit

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more of the details of it, you know, and feeling very safe and feeling,

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feeling like, this is the right thing to do,

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even though it's hard, it's the right thing to do.

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So yeah.

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Well, I'm very glad, honored that you trusted me with it.

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So thank you that.

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Can I ask you a

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Little bit about some of the stuff you shared,

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because you were talking about the abuse that you experienced?

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It didn't happen here.

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It happens in the Caribbean. Right.

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Yeah. So with me like it was. Yeah.

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It was really I can't remember my exact age

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because I actually wiped the whole thing from my memory.

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You know, it was, that's the classic case

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of completely burying it really really deep.

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They happened I'm going to say between the ages of seven and nine.

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Yeah. I again I can't remember whether it happened.

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Sort of more than once or it happened

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just, just just to once I feel like it was more than once.

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But yeah, essentially it was my older brother's best friend and, you know,

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so again, how these things so often happen is that it's someone close to the child.

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Right?

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So my older brother's best friend must have been about sort of,

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you know, in his late teens, he himself kind of still a boy.

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And you know what I mean in one sense.

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So it's a, you know, it's it's pretty tragic.

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He just invited, you know, me round his house, you know,

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and things started happening and things that I didn't understand, things that,

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you know, as a 7 or 9 year old boy, I couldn't consent to.

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But I do remember consenting,

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which again adds to how difficult it is because I did consent.

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I wasn't forced, but how can the child. Oh, always.

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Just not to me. That's. Yeah. How kind of, you know.

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Not only consent but know and understand what is happening.

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Yeah.

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Not particularly in a trusting environment

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of, like, your brother's best friend, right?

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Yeah I do that. Kind of like trust.

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You've witnessed it then.

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You might want to replicate it somehow.

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And that doesn't mean that you want it that you know.

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Oh thanks for sharing that and so on.

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And then what I found yeah.

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Really struck me when we were having our chat in the.

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I'm just going to call it playground chat

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Because I was also in a playground

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Yeah yeah

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Oh my days -I was doing laps as well

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That's and that's, that's another thing because I was.

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Saying a dear friends and I was like I don't want to have this extremely intimate call.

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Yeah.

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With someone next door.

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I just doesn't feel fair

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Yeah.

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I was also walking in a playground

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Oh, thank you for that.

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Yeah. So anyway and.

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Then what really struck me was when you said, I know that this abuse had happened.

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It happened some time in the Caribbean when I was younger.

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But then I flat out forgot fully.

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Yeah.

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When do you remember when you first remembered.

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So what's really interesting is

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I think a little tiny piece of it wasn't buried

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in that like you know, like one of those memories is just super vague.

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It's like it's, it's, it's more so a feeling than, than than a memory.

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It's that vague.

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It's that kind of, you know, yeah.

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I do remember throughout my life having this weird

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kind of vague memory that something happened,

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but I, I convinced myself that this was just a bad dream.

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That was that, you know, that I, that I kept on having.

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But honestly, I buried it from like about the age of nine

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till about the age of 28, you know, almost like 20 years.

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Yeah.

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Buried it, fully buried it so deep that actually,

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I went back to the Caribbean twice,

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and both times I hung out with him, partied with him.

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I went drinking with this guy, with my brother as well,

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you know, and it it didn't come back.

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Was not triggered by seeing the man that did this thing to me.

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Not triggered at all.

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How did you feel towards him when you was, when you out.

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Fine.

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Because as I so I mean this is another story for another podcast.

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But, my older brother was quite a difficult brother.

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I would use the word abusive really,

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to describe him towards me physically, you know, and psychologically.

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Emotionally, really. You know, he used to hit me.

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Just call me stupid, all kind of stuff.

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So I've got lots of fond memories of his best friend who abused me

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because I remember him

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having to always sort of step in and save me from my older brother.

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So there's just levels of confusion.

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I remembered him really fondly, you know?

00:12:02:01 - 00:12:05:02
You know, he was always quite friendly then, actually, at that point,

00:12:05:02 - 00:12:07:23
you know, me and my older brother's relationship was still not great.

00:12:07:23 - 00:12:08:23
And I went back.

00:12:08:23 - 00:12:11:17
I still remember him like having to defend me.

00:12:11:17 - 00:12:13:17
It was when I met him. It was fine.

00:12:13:17 - 00:12:18:02
But yeah, I mean, and I can I can talk about what caused the trigger.

00:12:18:06 - 00:12:18:15
Yeah.

00:12:19:24 - 00:12:21:03
So yeah, so like I said, you know,

00:12:21:03 - 00:12:25:18
like buried it for 20 years and then, you know,

00:12:25:18 - 00:12:30:09
I even saw the man that did this to me and that did not bring it back up.

00:12:30:21 - 00:12:34:02
The thing that brought it back up the completely just unraveled

00:12:34:02 - 00:12:36:13
it all was actually a Netflix show.

00:12:36:13 - 00:12:39:17
Really has a show on Netflix -About abuse?

00:12:40:07 - 00:12:42:12
Yeah. In in a sense.

00:12:42:12 - 00:12:45:12
So it's a show called, The Alienist.

00:12:45:18 - 00:12:48:24
And essentially it's set in like Victorian England.

00:12:49:01 - 00:12:52:02
Someone's going to fact check me about which period, but it's

00:12:52:02 - 00:12:55:02
set back in the day. -Dont worry, we’ll cover you in the comments

00:12:55:08 - 00:12:57:08
It's, It's like it's

00:12:57:08 - 00:13:00:08
set back in the day in England.

00:13:00:20 - 00:13:03:09
It's essentially about this.

00:13:03:09 - 00:13:07:05
It's this sort of brothel that has, child prostitutes

00:13:07:14 - 00:13:10:21
and it's mainly just little boys that service men. Wow.

00:13:11:05 - 00:13:14:17
And so seeing these little boys as prostitutes serving these men

00:13:16:08 - 00:13:18:02
triggered the whole thing

00:13:18:02 - 00:13:22:05
unraveled that I was like, oh, oh, no, this is this is real.

00:13:22:05 - 00:13:25:05
This really did happen.

00:13:25:19 - 00:13:26:10
And then me

00:13:26:10 - 00:13:29:16
being me, I, you know, I tried to bury it again.

00:13:29:16 - 00:13:31:14
You know, I thought if I just don't think about it,

00:13:31:14 - 00:13:35:13
if I just suppress it, I'll be able to move on and

00:13:35:24 - 00:13:39:16
and live my life, you know, and and and I'll be fine because I, I am fine.

00:13:39:16 - 00:13:41:04
I am fine.

00:13:41:04 - 00:13:43:04
And then I just, I couldn't, I couldn't bury it.

00:13:43:04 - 00:13:47:22
Couldn't suppress it, couldn't sleep, you know, fully retraumatized.

00:13:48:05 - 00:13:51:05
I decided to get help and go to therapy.

00:13:51:20 - 00:13:54:06
Do you remember roughly how long that took you for?

00:13:54:06 - 00:13:54:12
What?

00:13:54:12 - 00:13:56:15
Like for watching that show,

00:13:56:15 - 00:13:59:22
having those first experience of memories and then seeking out therapy?

00:14:02:01 - 00:14:02:23
It was pretty quick.

00:14:02:23 - 00:14:03:22
It was pretty quick.

00:14:03:22 - 00:14:06:07
Yeah. It must have been like two weeks or so.

00:14:06:07 - 00:14:06:21
Really?

00:14:06:21 - 00:14:10:02
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it been about two, two weeks of me just sort of.

00:14:10:05 - 00:14:13:05
And annoyingly I kept on trying to watch the show,

00:14:13:11 - 00:14:15:13
you know, me thinking, oh, if I don't realize,

00:14:15:13 - 00:14:17:04
okay, I really can't watch the show anymore

00:14:17:04 - 00:14:19:09
because the show became impossible to watch.

00:14:19:09 - 00:14:21:09
And that's also when when I knew that this was a real problem,

00:14:21:09 - 00:14:25:07
because seeing the show, seeing the boys became so unbearable, so

00:14:25:23 - 00:14:30:21
heartbreaking, and so revolting to me because I saw me in them, you know,

00:14:31:04 - 00:14:35:22
it brought back all the shame and all the self-hatred and the disgust

00:14:36:04 - 00:14:40:03
that you kind of feel with these things of the show becoming impossible

00:14:40:07 - 00:14:43:09
to watch for me, was was a sign that, like, something was really wrong

00:14:43:09 - 00:14:46:09
and I wasn't going to be able to just brush this off.

00:14:46:10 - 00:14:49:10
What was great as well was I was in a full time job,

00:14:49:21 - 00:14:53:13
and we had free private medical care, but not free.

00:14:53:13 - 00:14:54:06
But, you know, like.

00:14:54:06 - 00:14:55:20
Yeah, it's like it's.

00:14:55:20 - 00:14:56:16
Part of the package. Yeah.

00:14:56:16 - 00:15:02:13
So thankfully, yeah, I got onto Bupa and they got me psychiatrist

00:15:02:13 - 00:15:07:07
like immediately I immediately, you know, I needed you like my, you know, and then,

00:15:07:13 - 00:15:10:08
I had a psychiatrist and we were just sort of talking through

00:15:10:08 - 00:15:14:04
what happened to me really, you know, and I was just unpacking this stuff, so.

00:15:14:04 - 00:15:16:11
Yeah. Like, they they also wanted to take it to the police

00:15:17:10 - 00:15:19:11
and that, I don't know,

00:15:19:11 - 00:15:22:22
that's just I don't know because it's like I said, I remember this guy.

00:15:22:23 - 00:15:24:00
So funny.

00:15:24:00 - 00:15:27:22
So even though I was really upset and mad that this thing had happened,

00:15:28:11 - 00:15:31:00
I didn't want to put him in jail,

00:15:31:00 - 00:15:32:16
you know, I didn't I didn't want to.

00:15:32:16 - 00:15:36:12
I didn't want to see him go to jail because I wasn't really angry at him.

00:15:37:00 - 00:15:38:15
It's really strange.

00:15:38:15 - 00:15:39:00
And then. Yeah.

00:15:39:00 - 00:15:40:20
And so when the police said, you know, like,

00:15:40:20 - 00:15:43:14
we can start that investigation and it would have to be

00:15:43:14 - 00:15:46:14
this international thing because obviously he's in the Caribbean.

00:15:46:22 - 00:15:51:20
It just felt like the process of trying to get it international and the French,

00:15:52:12 - 00:15:54:22
the police, because the island I'm from is a French island.

00:15:54:22 - 00:15:57:15
Okay. That would have to be coordinated.

00:15:57:15 - 00:16:01:08
They'd have to take my phone, you know, like, I'm, I know it's I'm sorry.

00:16:01:10 - 00:16:03:24
And this process is years -It takes a long time.

00:16:03:24 - 00:16:05:13
And I just thought

00:16:05:13 - 00:16:09:18
I don't have that anger, I don't, I don't, I don't know what it's going to achieve.

00:16:10:01 - 00:16:11:19
It's not going to help me.

00:16:11:19 - 00:16:13:20
I just said, let's just just leave it.

00:16:15:06 - 00:16:17:02
He's out there just living.

00:16:17:02 - 00:16:17:18
You know?

00:16:17:18 - 00:16:20:18
Have you seen him since, -No

00:16:21:22 - 00:16:24:14
I was also in a WhatsApp group with him.

00:16:24:14 - 00:16:29:16
So around the time when the the it all sort of came out.

00:16:30:08 - 00:16:30:24
Unravelled.

00:16:30:24 - 00:16:33:22
Yeah, I was in a WhatsApp group with him still, because.

00:16:33:22 - 00:16:36:22
So, I mean, all our friends from back

00:16:36:23 - 00:16:40:08
Caribbean, me, my older brother and him were in a WhatsApp group together.

00:16:40:11 - 00:16:42:14
I thought I thought to myself, I need to leave the group,

00:16:42:14 - 00:16:43:24
but then I'm going to look like a prick.

00:16:48:00 - 00:16:48:16
Where's he gone?

00:16:48:16 - 00:16:49:05
You know what I mean?

00:16:49:05 - 00:16:52:05
And I honestly, I stayed, I stayed in the group.

00:16:52:19 - 00:16:53:16
But I just did.

00:16:53:16 - 00:16:57:00
Did I leave it? I can't remember what I did actually I definitely remember

00:16:57:00 - 00:16:59:16
staying until I was just like, you know what? Fuck this guy.

00:16:59:16 - 00:17:00:10
Yeah. Fuck.

00:17:00:10 - 00:17:02:03
You know, fuck what these guys think of me.

00:17:02:03 - 00:17:06:03
But, you know, even then at a time, I was more worried about being

00:17:06:06 - 00:17:09:06
coming across as rude to my friends and to him,

00:17:09:20 - 00:17:12:20
you know, than just doing what I needed to to do.

00:17:12:24 - 00:17:14:14
Even around that time, he.

00:17:14:14 - 00:17:16:17
He texted me to wish me happy birthday.

00:17:16:17 - 00:17:18:08
It was around my birthday as well.

00:17:18:08 - 00:17:21:05
So happy birthday man. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:21:05 - 00:17:22:17
That’s a lot, that’s a lot Davy

00:17:22:17 - 00:17:24:09
Yeah, yeah. I don't know what to do with him.

00:17:25:11 - 00:17:28:08
And he, he he obviously knows what he's done.

00:17:28:08 - 00:17:31:06
So I guess he obviously is

00:17:31:06 - 00:17:34:06
he's, he's happy with the fact that he's gotten away with it.

00:17:34:12 - 00:17:37:02
And I've obviously buried it.

00:17:37:02 - 00:17:40:22
So but yeah, I just wanna know what's going what's going through your mind

00:17:41:09 - 00:17:44:18
that you did this to a little boy and now you're texting him up, texting me.

00:17:44:18 - 00:17:47:12
I mean, happy birthday. Like everything's fine.

00:17:47:12 - 00:17:50:08
This is the thing that I think a lot of people who haven’y gone

00:17:50:08 - 00:17:53:22
through these experiences, they don't typically understand.

00:17:53:22 - 00:17:54:04
Right?

00:17:54:04 - 00:17:57:08
They're like, oh, why did you go to your abuser's wedding?

00:17:57:08 - 00:17:59:09
Or why are you still chummy with them or whatever?

00:17:59:09 - 00:18:02:09
And a lot of the time you've spent since that

00:18:02:09 - 00:18:06:01
abuse, keeping up a facade, whether or not you realize it or not.

00:18:06:06 - 00:18:09:06
And so to even leave a group chat to even,

00:18:09:09 - 00:18:12:24
you know, confront them or whatever, you're breaking that facade in some way.

00:18:12:24 - 00:18:14:10
It's not just a little action.

00:18:14:10 - 00:18:17:21
So sometimes it is just easier to, like, keep that peace that way.

00:18:17:24 - 00:18:21:05
So many people, there are more people involved than just the abuser.

00:18:21:23 - 00:18:24:19
And that thing you said earlier about,

00:18:24:19 - 00:18:28:13
you know, him being the nice one and that thing that we don't typically

00:18:28:20 - 00:18:33:00
think about abuse as being something that is linked to niceness and kindness.

00:18:33:00 - 00:18:33:08
Right.

00:18:33:08 - 00:18:35:16
So like if you see a behavior

00:18:35:16 - 00:18:38:18
typically a child is is receiving lots of positive actions.

00:18:39:03 - 00:18:40:14
It can be very easy,

00:18:40:14 - 00:18:44:02
especially where bodies are involved and that type of abuse is involved,

00:18:44:10 - 00:18:47:10
the kind of associated with a form of that kindness.

00:18:47:13 - 00:18:49:09
And then it leads to more confusion, right?

00:18:49:09 - 00:18:50:07
Which is another reason

00:18:50:07 - 00:18:54:18
why you might have buried it and then realized so late after as well.

00:18:54:18 - 00:18:55:17
Yeah. No. Absolutely.

00:18:55:17 - 00:18:59:00
You know, I said, you know, like he wasn't it sounds great to say,

00:18:59:00 - 00:19:02:00
but he wasn't a bad guy, you know.

00:19:02:01 - 00:19:05:19
And just to be clear as well about him, he is in the world

00:19:05:19 - 00:19:08:04
and back home in his life. He's a straight man.

00:19:08:04 - 00:19:10:01
He has children, he has sons.

00:19:10:01 - 00:19:13:13
So, you know, he walks around in life as a straight man, me

00:19:13:13 - 00:19:17:16
as an older person now and with distance and separation from this thing.

00:19:18:03 - 00:19:20:00
I'm just thinking what's going on with him as well.

00:19:20:00 - 00:19:23:07
You know, I'm it's got to be some history of trauma

00:19:23:09 - 00:19:27:09
in his life because these things, more often than not, they’re passed on.

00:19:27:23 - 00:19:31:05
It's just really hard to to know what to do with him.

00:19:31:19 - 00:19:34:15
I'm worried that maybe he's done it again,

00:19:34:15 - 00:19:37:15
you know, and he's hurt other boys, kids.

00:19:38:03 - 00:19:40:12
But also, I just really want to highlight that

00:19:40:12 - 00:19:43:17
doing something, even that is not your duty.

00:19:43:17 - 00:19:45:04
And that's a above and beyond and the very fact

00:19:45:04 - 00:19:48:04
that you're even talking about your story and you've sought help for yourself like

00:19:48:08 - 00:19:51:07
that is the bit that you need to focus on, and you shouldn't

00:19:51:07 - 00:19:52:20
even have to be doing that in the first place.

00:19:52:20 - 00:19:56:07
Like, you shouldn't have to be healing from the fact that this person abused you,

00:19:56:09 - 00:19:59:01
and to advantage of you from such a young age.

00:19:59:01 - 00:19:59:11
Right.

00:19:59:11 - 00:20:02:12
And then that's the thing with a lot of survivors, you can feel

00:20:02:12 - 00:20:06:02
that way of like how to protect from future children.

00:20:06:02 - 00:20:08:10
Do I even want to understand their motivations?

00:20:08:10 - 00:20:11:17
And I guess I'm speaking from a space of solidarity as well,

00:20:11:17 - 00:20:13:24
because that kind of comes into my head all the time.

00:20:13:24 - 00:20:16:20
Like, are they out and about doing it to other people?

00:20:16:20 - 00:20:19:09
Or do they even realize what they did was wrong,

00:20:19:09 - 00:20:21:05
or what was going through their head when this happened?

00:20:21:05 - 00:20:24:24
And sometimes I really want answers and sometimes I don't want to know,

00:20:25:12 - 00:20:28:17
and it just becomes another stage of the healing process, I suppose.

00:20:28:17 - 00:20:32:09
Or like the journey of what you have to deal with, which is not on you, you know?

00:20:32:20 - 00:20:33:19
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely.

00:20:33:19 - 00:20:38:02
It's, it's, it's one of those strange ones where I think part of the healing is

00:20:38:15 - 00:20:39:21
letting go, you know,

00:20:40:21 - 00:20:42:14
to be fair, there definitely was a point

00:20:42:14 - 00:20:45:14
when I was really angry about it, you know?

00:20:45:23 - 00:20:49:23
So, you know, I know I don't have recently said that that, like, I don't hate him,

00:20:50:08 - 00:20:52:23
but I think there was a point where I was just I was more mad

00:20:52:23 - 00:20:56:01
at what he did than the hatred for him as a person.

00:20:56:01 - 00:20:59:16
You know, more mad that I have to live with this thing

00:21:00:00 - 00:21:01:05
that's never going to go away.

00:21:01:05 - 00:21:04:08
I'm never going to not remember what happened to me, because obviously,

00:21:04:08 - 00:21:07:04
now that it's come back, the memory is very clear.

00:21:07:04 - 00:21:07:10
Yeah.

00:21:07:10 - 00:21:10:10
You know, of what happened and it's very vivid.

00:21:11:19 - 00:21:14:02
I'm. Yeah, it's, you know, I'm really angry

00:21:14:02 - 00:21:18:00
that I have to live with this memory that no matter how many happy things

00:21:18:07 - 00:21:21:09
happened to me, no matter how many good things happened in my life,

00:21:21:15 - 00:21:26:12
I have this really fucking insane thing that is always going to be there.

00:21:28:04 - 00:21:31:04
So there was there was a point when I was really angry

00:21:31:08 - 00:21:35:07
and, you know, and again, you know, I really planned this shit of

00:21:35:07 - 00:21:39:07
like going to get on a plane because I know where he lives.

00:21:39:15 - 00:21:41:07
I’m going to get on aplane.

00:21:41:07 - 00:21:44:07
Go back to the Caribbean, go back to Saint Martin,

00:21:45:03 - 00:21:50:07
find this guy, murder him, catch a plane back, come to England and.

00:21:50:07 - 00:21:50:23
It's going to be fine.

00:21:50:23 - 00:21:53:23
I'm like, I'm gonna get away with it because I'm so far away in England.

00:21:54:02 - 00:21:55:12
No one's going to catch me.

00:21:55:12 - 00:21:57:22
You know, from the little, this little tiny island

00:21:57:22 - 00:22:01:02
and, you know, and, you know, I had this sort of like, revenge,

00:22:01:13 - 00:22:04:08
you know, this, like, I guess you call it a revenge fantasy, right?

00:22:04:08 - 00:22:04:18
Yeah.

00:22:04:18 - 00:22:06:24
You know, and and and that also was so clear

00:22:06:24 - 00:22:10:02
and it felt so good to just relive that fantasy over and over again.

00:22:10:02 - 00:22:12:09
Just like stabbing him and making him feel pain,

00:22:12:09 - 00:22:14:17
you know, and just releasing all my rage on, on on him.

00:22:16:05 - 00:22:16:18
But yeah.

00:22:16:18 - 00:22:20:16
And and that was something that I had to learn to let go of as well, you know, and

00:22:21:18 - 00:22:26:01
the way that I let go of that was by, by letting go of the hurt,

00:22:26:04 - 00:22:30:05
you know, by letting go of the trauma, just kind of accepting it

00:22:30:05 - 00:22:31:08
and making peace with it.

00:22:31:08 - 00:22:34:14
You know, I have this image of me in my head

00:22:34:14 - 00:22:37:14
walking and holding hands with my trauma,

00:22:37:17 - 00:22:42:07
you know, and, you know, that's that's actually like a really big way

00:22:42:07 - 00:22:44:22
of how I kind of deal with a lot of my sort of traumas

00:22:44:22 - 00:22:48:16
or just things I find really difficult, is I create, I create,

00:22:49:19 - 00:22:54:00
an image in my head of, of where I want to be.

00:22:54:00 - 00:22:58:14
So if I have this trauma that I'm, that I'm scared of, that I'm angry about,

00:22:59:03 - 00:23:02:11
I create an image or vision of me walking and holding its hand

00:23:03:03 - 00:23:06:21
if I'm, like, really stressed and I feel like the world is against me,

00:23:07:11 - 00:23:10:11
you're like, I imagine a cloudy sky.

00:23:10:14 - 00:23:14:23
And then I go above the clouds and there's sunshine.

00:23:15:22 - 00:23:18:01
So basically you're like manifesting king.

00:23:18:01 - 00:23:20:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:20:07 - 00:23:20:19
That's it.

00:23:20:19 - 00:23:21:16
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

00:23:21:16 - 00:23:22:13
So it's,

00:23:22:13 - 00:23:26:17
you know, so for me like, yeah, I, I just, I just think an image is so powerful.

00:23:26:17 - 00:23:28:15
That's probably why I work in film.

00:23:28:15 - 00:23:32:14
I just think I find images really powerful and profound.

00:23:33:12 - 00:23:36:22
And they just, they they just get me out of whatever dark place I’m in

00:23:36:22 - 00:23:38:08
Where did that come from?

00:23:38:08 - 00:23:40:07
Or where did you start doing that?

00:23:40:07 - 00:23:42:00
That's a good question.

00:23:42:00 - 00:23:45:08
Where did I start doing that, honestly, I've pretty much been a fantasist

00:23:45:08 - 00:23:46:00
my whole life.

00:23:46:00 - 00:23:48:11
me and my family, we grew up quite poor as well.

00:23:48:11 - 00:23:50:12
And like I said, my my older brother was very abusive

00:23:50:12 - 00:23:53:04
pretty much my whole life until I was like 18.

00:23:53:04 - 00:23:54:09
You know, there was one point.

00:23:54:09 - 00:23:57:02
I mean, he had a really bad fight and he's older much people.

00:23:57:02 - 00:23:59:04
So he's always been much bigger than me.

00:23:59:04 - 00:24:00:06
You know, there's one time when he, like,

00:24:00:06 - 00:24:03:13
he probably beat me up, like he beat me up, you know.

00:24:03:13 - 00:24:06:11
And so I think, I think I spent a lot of my life.

00:24:06:11 - 00:24:09:06
Really angry, really been unhappy. at home.

00:24:09:06 - 00:24:13:14
I had loving parents, but just home was I found home really difficult.

00:24:14:01 - 00:24:18:22
And so I used to kind of do this thing where I would lay down in the corner

00:24:19:12 - 00:24:21:22
with like a ball or something and just like, bounce the ball

00:24:21:22 - 00:24:24:24
against the wall, just fantasize for like hours on end.

00:24:24:24 - 00:24:27:22
Just go inside my, my mind,

00:24:29:00 - 00:24:31:23
and just go to a happy place.

00:24:31:23 - 00:24:34:23
Well, I looked at my older brother and I realized that he was really angry

00:24:35:07 - 00:24:39:15
all the time, and he was dealing with his own trauma and his own stuff.

00:24:39:21 - 00:24:42:15
So for me, I just thought, I don't want to be angry.

00:24:42:15 - 00:24:47:05
You know, I would never allow any things, negative to even enter my, my mind,

00:24:47:11 - 00:24:51:07
even though subconsciously I'm sure I felt that my life was shit.

00:24:51:15 - 00:24:53:21
I would never admit it to myself.

00:24:53:21 - 00:24:57:17
I'd rather just lay in the corner with my little ball and fantasize

00:24:57:23 - 00:24:58:23
in my happy place.

00:24:58:23 - 00:25:01:24
I don't know, I think it's really helped me a lot in life to kind of be

00:25:02:11 - 00:25:05:12
quite positive in insane circumstances.

00:25:05:22 - 00:25:08:21
I had anger issues in that when I when and when I was pushed too far.

00:25:08:21 - 00:25:12:02
I would snap and I would punch walls and that kind of thing.

00:25:12:10 - 00:25:14:10
But that's only after really being pushed far.

00:25:14:10 - 00:25:16:13
Yeah. I wasn't just like walking around mad.

00:25:17:13 - 00:25:18:20
But when pushed far enough,

00:25:18:20 - 00:25:23:03
the, the rage, all the shit that I buried did come out violently.

00:25:23:12 - 00:25:26:07
No, never against people, but objects.

00:25:26:07 - 00:25:30:14
Things smashing, punching bloody knuckles, you know,

00:25:30:20 - 00:25:33:12
like escaping is good, but you can't escape your problems

00:25:33:12 - 00:25:36:12
for forever, you know, like you have to face them.

00:25:36:17 - 00:25:39:07
That's why that visualization thing sounds quite powerful.

00:25:39:07 - 00:25:41:07
Like you're facing it,

00:25:41:07 - 00:25:44:05
turning it into something that you can walk alongside as well.

00:25:44:05 - 00:25:47:21
You told me a story, on the phone about anger

00:25:47:21 - 00:25:51:00
before, especially when you were like in your early 20s or something like that?

00:25:51:09 - 00:25:53:04
Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:53:04 - 00:25:56:07
During the pandemic, I was living with my, who's

00:25:56:07 - 00:25:58:07
now actually my really good friend thanks

00:25:58:07 - 00:25:59:19
Thank God I don't know how we,

00:25:59:19 - 00:26:03:04
we managed to save the friendship but we lived together.

00:26:03:21 - 00:26:09:14
He is an actor and actors are insane and they lead insane lives.

00:26:10:00 - 00:26:10:22
You know -Yep

00:26:10:22 - 00:26:13:15
They lead they they lead completely insane lives.

00:26:13:15 - 00:26:14:22
Really. And so.

00:26:14:22 - 00:26:16:00
So yes, we lived together.

00:26:16:00 - 00:26:18:05
And this was when I was going through therapy.

00:26:18:05 - 00:26:21:09
He was in a really kind of bad place in his life, where he just had

00:26:21:09 - 00:26:24:15
hip surgery and was still trying to act and do auditions.

00:26:24:18 - 00:26:26:06
But some people are just on grind

00:26:26:06 - 00:26:29:06
and they're just on that, like that, like that

00:26:29:06 - 00:26:31:17
He was very much part of that sort of hustle culture,

00:26:31:17 - 00:26:34:04
and he'd be doing auditions and self-tape

00:26:34:04 - 00:26:37:14
at like midnight, you know, and obviously, you know, he's an actor.

00:26:37:14 - 00:26:41:13
So sometimes you have to play a role where your character

00:26:41:13 - 00:26:44:21
screams or shouts, you know, and where. -So chaotic.

00:26:45:00 - 00:26:46:15
It's insane. -Yeah.

00:26:46:15 - 00:26:49:19
And where I was was I said, I just recently been

00:26:50:01 - 00:26:52:21
re triggered, you know, and I'm in therapy.

00:26:52:21 - 00:26:55:24
The boy that this happened to, I created a nightmare.

00:26:56:00 - 00:26:57:19
What happened to me in the nightmare.

00:26:57:19 - 00:27:02:14
It's like me as a boy and then him,

00:27:03:00 - 00:27:05:16
my abuser is like this monster

00:27:05:16 - 00:27:08:16
and he's abusing me.

00:27:09:03 - 00:27:12:03
I've been trying to run away from it for like, two weeks.

00:27:12:04 - 00:27:15:04
And in that week, I decided I'm going to go through it

00:27:15:04 - 00:27:16:20
like I have to go through this.

00:27:16:20 - 00:27:18:23
And so that week I'm trying to go through it

00:27:20:04 - 00:27:22:06
and my actor mate is

00:27:22:06 - 00:27:26:22
doing self tapes at midnight screaming, yeah, I already can't sleep.

00:27:26:22 - 00:27:30:23
You know, I, I am already just in a bad, bad place.

00:27:31:10 - 00:27:35:16
And then, you know, it must have been like two or 3 or 4 nights in a row.

00:27:36:03 - 00:27:38:11
I had to like knock on the living room door and say, hey, mate, like,

00:27:38:11 - 00:27:39:04
it's pretty late.

00:27:39:04 - 00:27:41:13
Can you, can you, can you put an end to this?

00:27:41:13 - 00:27:44:00
Whatever self-tape whatever thing you're doing, you can.

00:27:44:00 - 00:27:45:03
I'm really trying to sleep.

00:27:45:03 - 00:27:47:19
I'm really in a bad place anyway.

00:27:47:19 - 00:27:48:15
Yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool

00:27:48:15 - 00:27:52:13
And then I go back to my room and I hear, well, I hear screaming.

00:27:52:23 - 00:27:54:14
And then.

00:27:54:14 - 00:27:58:08
Yeah, by the fourth or fifth night in a row, I just walked into the room.

00:27:58:11 - 00:28:00:07
I grabbed his like, self-tape camera.

00:28:00:07 - 00:28:02:03
I just threw it on the floor I said okay, I said this is done.

00:28:02:03 - 00:28:05:03
Now you are saying you're done right now?

00:28:05:07 - 00:28:06:19
And he's like, yeah. And he's like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.

00:28:07:19 - 00:28:09:20
And so something about just,

00:28:09:20 - 00:28:13:14
just, just that little bit of me releasing some aggression.

00:28:13:14 - 00:28:15:15
Me really let him know how I feel.

00:28:15:15 - 00:28:17:16
I released a little bit of it and it felt good.

00:28:17:16 - 00:28:18:12
Yeah.

00:28:18:12 - 00:28:21:09
And then I went into the kitchen and I like,

00:28:21:09 - 00:28:24:09
I opened a cupboard

00:28:24:14 - 00:28:27:14
to get a cup of whatever, and then I slammed it

00:28:28:04 - 00:28:30:18
and I was like, oh, that felt good. Yeah.

00:28:30:18 - 00:28:34:05
And then I got another cupboard and I slammed up and another cupboard

00:28:34:05 - 00:28:37:05
and another thing, and then a cup and then I'm fucking smashed.

00:28:37:05 - 00:28:38:13
I'm smashing up the whole kitchen.

00:28:38:13 - 00:28:40:18
I'm just breaking, punching, kicking.

00:28:40:18 - 00:28:44:06
I'm screaming fuck, I'm fucking, I'm, I'm done, I'm done, I'm fucking finished.

00:28:44:13 - 00:28:47:01
I'm punching things. I'm, I'm breaking everything.

00:28:47:01 - 00:28:50:06
He runs into his bedroom where his girlfriend is.

00:28:51:06 - 00:28:53:05
I go into the living room where he just was.

00:28:53:05 - 00:28:56:12
I start smashing living room chairs, just fucking wood flying everywhere.

00:28:56:19 - 00:28:57:09
Bless him.

00:28:57:09 - 00:29:00:09
He had to basically escape through his bedroom window

00:29:00:10 - 00:29:03:10
with his girlfriend to get away from me.

00:29:05:07 - 00:29:06:24
And then. Yeah, like, I was just so mad.

00:29:06:24 - 00:29:10:05
I knew if I stayed in the house, I would, and I kept doing what I was doing.

00:29:10:05 - 00:29:14:07
I would, like, harm him, or me.

00:29:14:10 - 00:29:18:13
So somehow I had the presence of mind to take myself out of the house.

00:29:18:24 - 00:29:21:09
I went to the park at like midnight.

00:29:21:09 - 00:29:25:05
I was just yelling in the park, just screaming in the park, walking around.

00:29:25:16 - 00:29:27:01
I was like, fuck, I'm done.

00:29:27:01 - 00:29:29:11
I'm done just. Screaming.

00:29:29:11 - 00:29:32:04
Kind of semi calm down a bit.

00:29:32:04 - 00:29:35:10
So then I take myself home and he's so I think he

00:29:35:10 - 00:29:38:10
then went home, his girlfriend and went to his girlfriend's house.

00:29:38:13 - 00:29:40:21
And so I'm in the house all by myself and then.

00:29:40:21 - 00:29:41:01
Yeah.

00:29:41:01 - 00:29:45:09
And then it's really quiet and I realize that my breath is really heavy.

00:29:45:17 - 00:29:49:17
I'm like, you know, I'm breathing like a like a like a fucking, like a maniac.

00:29:49:17 - 00:29:50:09
You know, I'm in,

00:29:51:06 - 00:29:53:03
you know, I'm really like

00:29:53:03 - 00:29:54:24
And then I go in my bedroom

00:29:54:24 - 00:29:58:12
and I had this massive wardrobe, which was just like a mirror.

00:29:59:04 - 00:30:02:04
And I see myself, I'm like, oh, shit, it's me.

00:30:03:07 - 00:30:06:07
I was like, oh shit, it's me,

00:30:06:07 - 00:30:06:15
you know?

00:30:06:15 - 00:30:09:15
And it was like a weird thing of, oh,

00:30:09:21 - 00:30:11:16
that's me,

00:30:11:16 - 00:30:14:10
because I completely lost myself,

00:30:14:10 - 00:30:14:22
you know?

00:30:14:22 - 00:30:17:04
Like, I was just the rage, you know?

00:30:17:04 - 00:30:18:16
It was just the rage

00:30:18:16 - 00:30:21:13
and seeing me, I was like, oh, this is what I look like when I'm.

00:30:21:13 - 00:30:24:15
I saw myself and I was like, fuck Davy

00:30:25:10 - 00:30:27:24
how did you end up here?

00:30:27:24 - 00:30:31:16
And I don't even remember going to sleep that night.

00:30:31:20 - 00:30:34:12
Dont remember going to sleep.

00:30:34:12 - 00:30:34:20
And yeah.

00:30:34:20 - 00:30:39:00
And then, you know, the next day I sort of woke up and walked

00:30:39:00 - 00:30:42:13
around the flat and, you know, it's just it's like a hurricane, you know?

00:30:42:13 - 00:30:45:12
You know, what's what's the Frank ocean tsong?

00:30:45:12 - 00:30:48:18
A tornado tore around my room before he came.

00:30:48:19 - 00:30:50:04
And then it doesn't rain.

00:30:50:04 - 00:30:52:12
And stuff, but I fucked up the lyrics.

00:30:52:12 - 00:30:53:07
Thought I’d try it.

00:30:53:07 - 00:30:56:18
I was like, I was like, A tornado was up in here.

00:30:57:15 - 00:30:59:01
And that tornado was me. Yeah.

00:31:00:09 - 00:31:01:22
And, and, yeah, I was

00:31:01:22 - 00:31:04:23
just like, I'll just like, this is a problem, you know?

00:31:04:23 - 00:31:07:07
And I can't express my emotions like this.

00:31:07:07 - 00:31:10:07
And again, that for me was a really reassuring

00:31:10:08 - 00:31:11:22
moment of like, I really need to go.

00:31:11:22 - 00:31:15:03
I really need to keep on with the therapy and just know that, like,

00:31:15:03 - 00:31:19:06
I need to express my emotions better.

00:31:19:06 - 00:31:21:09
I'm actually more consistently.

00:31:21:09 - 00:31:24:03
If someone is pissing you off,

00:31:24:03 - 00:31:27:21
you should let them know you know in a positive and non-aggressive way.

00:31:28:01 - 00:31:29:24
Just be like, hey, you know this, this is really annoying me.

00:31:29:24 - 00:31:30:20
You know what I mean?

00:31:30:20 - 00:31:33:07
Because did he know what you were going through.

00:31:33:07 - 00:31:35:17
He knew. Yes. So he knew.

00:31:35:17 - 00:31:38:07
I been abused, you know, like.

00:31:38:07 - 00:31:40:08
Yeah. Yes, he knew he did.

00:31:40:08 - 00:31:43:08
He didn't know I was trying to go through the trauma.

00:31:43:08 - 00:31:45:13
Okay. You know, he he didn't know that.

00:31:45:13 - 00:31:47:13
But he knew that I was, you know, in therapy

00:31:47:13 - 00:31:49:05
and I was trying to work through this thing.

00:31:49:05 - 00:31:50:02
But like I said,

00:31:50:02 - 00:31:53:24
he was in his own, his own mess as well, you know, and essentially,

00:31:54:00 - 00:31:58:02
you know, again, with, with space and hindsight from, from this incident,

00:31:58:14 - 00:32:01:15
I think both of us could see that we just weren't hearing each other.

00:32:01:22 - 00:32:05:04
I just felt so ashamed of myself that I terrified my mate, you know?

00:32:05:04 - 00:32:09:04
I mean, I made my housemate escape away from for me.

00:32:09:14 - 00:32:11:11
What happened next?

00:32:11:11 - 00:32:14:10
Eventually me and him had a phone call.

00:32:14:10 - 00:32:17:16
You know, we we spoke because he just, like, moved into his.

00:32:17:16 - 00:32:20:16
Girlfriend's for, like, a couple days.

00:32:20:17 - 00:32:22:08
He was like you need to do your thing

00:32:22:10 - 00:32:24:00
yeah. He.

00:32:24:00 - 00:32:24:17
So. Yeah.

00:32:24:17 - 00:32:27:17
So he was at his girlfriend's for a few days.

00:32:28:14 - 00:32:29:16
We spoke on the phone.

00:32:29:16 - 00:32:31:10
We kind of just, you know, we kind of just.

00:32:31:10 - 00:32:34:10
I apologized,

00:32:34:14 - 00:32:35:20
He apologized.

00:32:35:20 - 00:32:36:03
Yeah.

00:32:36:03 - 00:32:38:22
And I just said, look, man, you know, like, it's it's safe to come back,

00:32:38:22 - 00:32:39:21
you know, it's safe to come back.

00:32:39:21 - 00:32:41:24
I'm. I'm okay now.

00:32:41:24 - 00:32:43:24
But what was great was,

00:32:43:24 - 00:32:48:22
you know, we really then both respected each other and all of the late

00:32:48:22 - 00:32:52:06
night auditions and self tapes, they they stopped, you know.

00:32:52:20 - 00:32:54:24
And like, yeah -Thank fuck for that.

00:32:57:06 - 00:32:58:11
Yeah. So they, they stopped.

00:32:58:11 - 00:33:01:20
And then of a few months later, I moved my ass out of there.

00:33:02:09 - 00:33:03:15
You know, there's some friends that you love them,

00:33:03:15 - 00:33:05:11
but you're not meant to live with your

00:33:05:11 - 00:33:07:11
With your friends. -Yeah, you know all my friends say that to me

00:33:07:11 - 00:33:08:16
Yeah.

00:33:08:16 - 00:33:10:24
They’re like I don’t know how your partner lives with you because you are chaos

00:33:10:24 - 00:33:13:07
So that's what I said. So, like, So.

00:33:13:07 - 00:33:17:24
Yeah, like, it was my 34th birthday a week ago now, and he was there

00:33:17:24 - 00:33:21:04
and we, you know, we partied and, you know, I said, I love you, man.

00:33:21:04 - 00:33:21:20
You know what I mean?

00:33:21:20 - 00:33:23:05
And so yeah. So it's great.

00:33:23:05 - 00:33:26:22
I'm really glad we were able to kind of have that, that sort of moment.

00:33:26:22 - 00:33:30:10
And and, and survive it really, you know, as friends.

00:33:30:10 - 00:33:31:00
So that was good.

00:33:32:18 - 00:33:35:18
I remember when you're telling me this story very briefly,

00:33:35:19 - 00:33:39:09
on the call, and there was something you said that was so powerful.

00:33:39:09 - 00:33:43:02
You said, in the heat of this moment, all I was thinking was,

00:33:43:07 - 00:33:45:01
I'm the one that's gone through that abuse.

00:33:45:01 - 00:33:47:01
I'm the one that's trying to process what's happened to me.

00:33:47:01 - 00:33:49:00
How can you not see.

00:33:49:00 - 00:33:51:07
And it's exactly what you were saying about the two of you like

00:33:51:07 - 00:33:54:07
not really listening to each other, not being aware of that.

00:33:54:23 - 00:33:58:11
Pulling it back into this stereotype because I think particularly

00:33:58:11 - 00:34:00:05
for men and particularly for black men,

00:34:00:05 - 00:34:03:14
there's this stereotype of like the angry black man

00:34:03:24 - 00:34:07:14
And I would truly like to believe that nobody just wakes up and is like,

00:34:07:23 - 00:34:09:05
I want to fucking kill someone.

00:34:09:05 - 00:34:11:08
I know just wakes up with that anger.

00:34:11:08 - 00:34:15:15
And I think with so often people are much more willing to sympathize,

00:34:15:15 - 00:34:16:02
for example,

00:34:16:02 - 00:34:19:17
with someone like me, than they are for someone like you to like look past

00:34:19:17 - 00:34:21:06
what's happening to be like,

00:34:21:06 - 00:34:23:19
there is something here that that person is processing.

00:34:23:19 - 00:34:26:09
And you said it felt good, you know, smashing the cupboard

00:34:26:09 - 00:34:28:24
It felt good. Like that little release of throwing the

00:34:28:24 - 00:34:29:19
It felt good.

00:34:29:19 - 00:34:32:19
But that was the way that you were processing what you were feeling.

00:34:33:03 - 00:34:35:14
And particularly in that moment, I think when you're not being heard

00:34:35:14 - 00:34:39:12
or listened to the like, that's just your body's natural response, I suppose.

00:34:39:12 - 00:34:40:02
And I'm not I'm not.

00:34:40:02 - 00:34:43:07
Saying, yeah, yeah, I'm not justifying it like I’m not saying

00:34:43:07 - 00:34:44:05
That's healthy

00:34:45:09 - 00:34:47:04
But what I'm saying is

00:34:47:04 - 00:34:51:06
there tends to be a lot less empathy and compassion

00:34:51:06 - 00:34:54:20
given to that sort of anger, particularly when it might be triggered by abuse.

00:34:55:08 - 00:34:58:05
And I wanted to share a story with a friend and colleague of mine.

00:34:58:05 - 00:34:59:16
Now, actually,

00:34:59:16 - 00:35:03:00
she's a black woman, and she used to be a social worker for like 30 years.

00:35:03:02 - 00:35:04:01
Wow.

00:35:04:01 - 00:35:07:04
And she routinely was working

00:35:07:04 - 00:35:10:04
with a lot of black boys who'd been sexually abused.

00:35:10:08 - 00:35:13:20
And she said it was so interesting because she's a black woman,

00:35:13:20 - 00:35:16:08
that opening up to her a little bit more, that kind of thing.

00:35:16:08 - 00:35:18:12
But then she would take these cases

00:35:18:12 - 00:35:21:11
and she would go to like police or whatever,

00:35:21:11 - 00:35:24:01
and they're like, okay, so let's review the case of this boy.

00:35:24:01 - 00:35:26:10
It'd be like a ten year old little boy, right?

00:35:26:10 - 00:35:29:22
And they're putting up like a mugshot photo, you know, so instantly.

00:35:29:22 - 00:35:32:02
And she's sitting there in the room, she's like, hang on,

00:35:32:02 - 00:35:34:17
where is the compassion here?

00:35:34:17 - 00:35:38:12
You know, because there might be like, okay, this boy smashing things up

00:35:39:04 - 00:35:41:10
exhibited these really bad behaviours.

00:35:41:10 - 00:35:43:14
You know, it's starting to get recruited for a gang.

00:35:43:14 - 00:35:45:08
Let's get in there. Let's do that.

00:35:45:08 - 00:35:49:22
And they're just flashing up his mugshot and she's like, look, I understand.

00:35:49:22 - 00:35:51:16
Like you want to just jump in there.

00:35:51:16 - 00:35:55:02
But like nobody is taking to account that this is a boy,

00:35:55:10 - 00:35:56:18
that there's abuse happening.

00:35:56:18 - 00:35:59:00
And then you throwing up that mugshot.

00:35:59:00 - 00:36:00:17
We talked about visuals. Right.

00:36:00:17 - 00:36:03:18
The instant association with a mugshot of a ten year old

00:36:04:04 - 00:36:06:08
for some people is going to be criminal.

00:36:06:08 - 00:36:07:24
And so that's inciting that behavior.

00:36:07:24 - 00:36:11:12
And she campaigned for so long to try and change the way that this particular

00:36:11:12 - 00:36:15:13
borough would portray images of boys, black boys and men.

00:36:15:23 - 00:36:19:18
The point is something as small as that, as a photo.

00:36:19:18 - 00:36:22:19
It can just aid so many biases in those systems

00:36:22:19 - 00:36:25:20
without taking the time to think, oh, here's a young boy.

00:36:26:00 - 00:36:29:01
He's at risk of exhibiting this that and the other behaviours and whatnot.

00:36:29:01 - 00:36:30:21
We've seen that he smashed this guy on the other.

00:36:30:21 - 00:36:34:23
But does anyone think to go back and ask, maybe something's happened, you know,

00:36:34:23 - 00:36:36:08
should we find out like and

00:36:36:08 - 00:36:40:04
that that conversation is so hard to have, but we don't even think to have it.

00:36:40:08 - 00:36:42:22
Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, yeah.

00:36:42:22 - 00:36:43:07
You know that.

00:36:43:07 - 00:36:44:14
You know, the word they have for

00:36:44:14 - 00:36:48:18
it is the adultification of kids, you know, of young black boys.

00:36:49:01 - 00:36:50:24
And, you know, this is this is child Q right.

00:36:50:24 - 00:36:52:18
You know, and that's a young black girl.

00:36:53:23 - 00:36:54:12
And we should

00:36:54:12 - 00:36:57:12
explain who child Q is as well.

00:36:57:12 - 00:37:01:11
In East London in about 2020, there was a 15 year old girl

00:37:01:17 - 00:37:05:10
who got strip searched by four police officers. Four. In a very

00:37:05:10 - 00:37:09:09
intimate way as well, after suspicion that she might have had weed on her.

00:37:09:16 - 00:37:11:04
Which she didn't. Yeah, exactly.

00:37:11:04 - 00:37:12:22
First of all, yes. Yeah.

00:37:12:22 - 00:37:17:11
And and second of all, she didn't even so was the wrong, wrong accusation as well.

00:37:17:11 - 00:37:18:18
She's such a danger, you know.

00:37:18:18 - 00:37:20:13
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly what she's going to do.

00:37:20:13 - 00:37:22:10
Smoke it. Yeah.

00:37:22:10 - 00:37:24:20
Good for her.

00:37:24:20 - 00:37:25:13
But yeah.

00:37:25:13 - 00:37:26:17
That obviously launched

00:37:26:17 - 00:37:30:13
a whole, report, and investigation, actually, I say obviously.

00:37:30:15 - 00:37:32:09
Yeah, I'm going to retract that.

00:37:32:09 - 00:37:35:18
I was going to say that obviously you launched a whole investigation

00:37:35:18 - 00:37:39:16
and report, but actually, very sadly, this happens all the time.

00:37:39:21 - 00:37:42:20
You don't see cases of these being reported.

00:37:42:20 - 00:37:44:22
And if they all report it's given serious weight.

00:37:44:22 - 00:37:48:02
So I think child Q was one of the first times that this actually was given.

00:37:48:04 - 00:37:48:21
Given weight.

00:37:48:21 - 00:37:51:24
Yeah, given weight and media coverage.

00:37:52:10 - 00:37:55:19
And I wanted to take some time to plug this amazing black academic

00:37:55:19 - 00:37:58:19
with Janine Davis, and she wrote a whole report and was kind of the

00:37:58:24 - 00:38:01:21
she was a huge spokesperson in the media for this as well.

00:38:01:21 - 00:38:05:19
She's a researcher that where black kids in child sexual abuse research.

00:38:05:21 - 00:38:08:13
Yeah. And uses child Q I’m jumping on your band waggon

00:38:08:13 - 00:38:10:23
Yeah, yeah. No, no. Yeah.

00:38:10:23 - 00:38:11:20
But I mean, that's it. Right?

00:38:11:20 - 00:38:14:20
You know, there's there's something that happens in

00:38:14:20 - 00:38:20:16
I mean, let's be honest, you know, in older white folks in positions of power,

00:38:20:16 - 00:38:24:16
whether that's the education system, you know, or, or in law enforcement,

00:38:24:21 - 00:38:28:18
they look at a black child, boy or girl, and they see an adult.

00:38:28:18 - 00:38:33:00
They see someone that needs to be treated with the harshness and severity

00:38:33:13 - 00:38:38:06
and more importantly, the lack of compassion that you would treat an adult.

00:38:38:22 - 00:38:43:04
You know, they they're incapable of seeing the child, seeing any innocence.

00:38:43:20 - 00:38:47:14
You know, all they see is this threat is this problem

00:38:47:14 - 00:38:50:14
is this thing that needs to be put in its place.

00:38:50:16 - 00:38:54:06
And, you know, when you're a young black child, you know that, you know,

00:38:54:06 - 00:38:56:16
you have you're very aware that these people are out to get you.

00:38:56:16 - 00:38:59:19
These people have an extra bone to pick with you.

00:39:00:11 - 00:39:01:01
I think what happen

00:39:01:01 - 00:39:04:11
I think what happens is that inevitably makes you buck the system

00:39:04:11 - 00:39:07:17
that probably makes you more aggressive, probably makes you more, more angry.

00:39:08:01 - 00:39:11:14
It probably turns you into a real danger because,

00:39:12:00 - 00:39:15:24
you know what society expects of you and they expect nothing.

00:39:15:24 - 00:39:18:00
They expect problems.

00:39:18:00 - 00:39:21:18
There's something also about being abused as a black man

00:39:21:18 - 00:39:26:01
that I find really difficult, because I'm angry

00:39:26:01 - 00:39:30:05
at the little boy and me for being so, so weak and being so fragile.

00:39:30:05 - 00:39:33:18
Because as a black man, I'm supposed to be strong even as a boy, right?

00:39:33:18 - 00:39:36:13
Even as a boy versus a man.

00:39:36:13 - 00:39:38:16
I should have been more manly.

00:39:38:16 - 00:39:40:24
I should have been tougher.

00:39:40:24 - 00:39:42:19
How can I let this happen to me?

00:39:42:19 - 00:39:45:19
I'm actually so sensitive, you know, I'm actually so sensitive.

00:39:45:23 - 00:39:50:01
And, so being black, being male and and sensitive, you know what I mean?

00:39:50:15 - 00:39:52:07
And and also quite sort of almost sort of.

00:39:52:07 - 00:39:55:07
I'm, you know, I can be quite socially awkward as well.

00:39:55:08 - 00:39:56:13
I've actually I've actually always found

00:39:56:13 - 00:40:00:05
being around like, really confident black guys very difficult, actually.

00:40:00:11 - 00:40:03:13
I find it very difficult around those guys because there's a

00:40:03:13 - 00:40:07:04
there's a level of confidence of self, assurance I've just never had.

00:40:07:18 - 00:40:11:07
Maybe it's comes from being in a society that is so against you

00:40:11:07 - 00:40:14:07
that you have to be so sort of fortified.

00:40:14:08 - 00:40:15:02
I've never had that.

00:40:15:02 - 00:40:17:01
I've, I've felt the pressure to be like that.

00:40:17:01 - 00:40:19:09
And I've tried to pretend and act as though

00:40:19:09 - 00:40:22:20
I'm really sort of confident, like I can remember, you know, when I was,

00:40:23:07 - 00:40:26:16
you know, in my sort of late teens, early 20s at the University,

00:40:27:12 - 00:40:30:12
you know, you you're in a club or a bar

00:40:30:16 - 00:40:35:11
and there's guys along the wall just kind of stood really stiff

00:40:35:18 - 00:40:39:06
Just screw facing, screw facing everyone.

00:40:39:06 - 00:40:41:06
Can you imagine. Me trying to be a tough guy?

00:40:41:06 - 00:40:44:06
Screw facing. Little skinny I'm not a screw face.

00:40:44:23 - 00:40:46:08
I'm just -Try go on try,

00:40:47:16 - 00:40:47:23
you know?

00:40:47:23 - 00:40:49:19
Not bad though.

00:40:49:19 - 00:40:51:21
I think a bit more screw.

00:40:51:21 - 00:40:53:08
I just I just want a smile.

00:40:53:08 - 00:40:55:18
I just want to give everybody a hug.

00:40:55:18 - 00:40:57:04
But but I was me, you know.

00:40:57:04 - 00:41:00:15
With my black friends who were very comfortable, who were very.

00:41:00:24 - 00:41:02:05
It came very easy to them.

00:41:02:05 - 00:41:07:04
You know, the stand against the wall on the side, not dancing screw facing.

00:41:07:04 - 00:41:11:00
And I kind of ended up living this weird sort of double life when I was at uni.

00:41:11:07 - 00:41:14:07
I had my black friends, my white friends,

00:41:14:10 - 00:41:17:02
and the code switching was intense,

00:41:17:02 - 00:41:20:16
like with my white friends, you know, because I went to a film school.

00:41:20:23 - 00:41:23:04
So I imagined all these little nerdy white boys, you know?

00:41:23:04 - 00:41:24:20
I mean, I fucking love them, you know?

00:41:24:20 - 00:41:28:00
I love just geeking out over films and tech and stuff like that.

00:41:28:08 - 00:41:29:07
and there were my black friends

00:41:31:01 - 00:41:32:08
screw facing in in the club.

00:41:32:08 - 00:41:34:24
You know, I'm dressing differently.

00:41:34:24 - 00:41:36:16
Yeah. It's it's so weird because.

00:41:36:16 - 00:41:40:06
Yeah, like, as a black man, you're your very

00:41:40:06 - 00:41:43:10
you have a very narrow lane of what a black man is.

00:41:43:10 - 00:41:46:17
And as soon as you step out of that, you're not a black man anymore.

00:41:46:17 - 00:41:49:17
You're. I think they have a term for it.

00:41:49:19 - 00:41:50:20
Oyinbo

00:41:50:20 - 00:41:52:08
I think they have a term for it.

00:41:52:08 - 00:41:54:23
I'm not sure. I don't know if it's in Nigerian.

00:41:54:23 - 00:41:57:10
I, I think it yeah, I think this is a Nigerian term

00:41:57:10 - 00:41:58:05
What does it mean?

00:41:58:05 - 00:42:01:05
It basically means, like a black guy that's white on the inside.

00:42:02:03 - 00:42:03:24
You know what I mean?

00:42:03:24 - 00:42:05:00
And, and.

00:42:05:00 - 00:42:06:24
Yeah, man, it's,

00:42:06:24 - 00:42:10:21
so, yeah, it's there's a whole lot to unpack there.

00:42:11:01 - 00:42:14:05
How was it with talking about sex with your friends in both these groups?

00:42:15:01 - 00:42:16:18
I mean, we never went into detail.

00:42:16:18 - 00:42:20:04
Like, you can't go into detail about your sex with another black guy.

00:42:20:04 - 00:42:21:02
That's too intimate.

00:42:21:02 - 00:42:21:16
It's too.

00:42:21:16 - 00:42:24:21
It's that's there's there's that as a black guy, there's there's a lot of lines.

00:42:24:21 - 00:42:29:01
There's a lot of invisible lines that you don't cross, you know,

00:42:30:08 - 00:42:31:05
it's in terms of like how you

00:42:31:05 - 00:42:34:05
interact with your guy friends and stuff.

00:42:35:10 - 00:42:38:04
And we would talk about girls.

00:42:38:04 - 00:42:40:16
We, we talk about wanting to sleep with girls.

00:42:40:16 - 00:42:43:22
But you never you you never go into detail and say, I slept with her in this way.

00:42:43:22 - 00:42:46:20
I did this sexual thing with her, you know, because that's too intimate.

00:42:46:20 - 00:42:46:24
Because.

00:42:46:24 - 00:42:50:19
Because then they have to picture you doing it in, and that's like,

00:42:51:04 - 00:42:54:14
you know, you know that old expression, no homo, you know what I mean?

00:42:54:22 - 00:42:58:12
Like, they don't want to have to picture you doing the sexual thing.

00:42:59:07 - 00:43:01:11
And that's just with like, consensual sex.

00:43:01:11 - 00:43:02:13
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:02:13 - 00:43:06:11
So then again, I guess I'm imagining then talking about abuse is like.

00:43:07:09 - 00:43:08:06
It's next level.

00:43:08:06 - 00:43:08:18
Yeah.

00:43:08:18 - 00:43:11:18
Like, you know, but with me, you know, again

00:43:12:09 - 00:43:15:13
I would find it so hard to bring this up with black guys

00:43:16:01 - 00:43:20:04
because I just think they would just see me as, as gay, honestly.

00:43:20:04 - 00:43:20:19
You know what I mean?

00:43:20:19 - 00:43:23:06
I think I think they start to question my sexuality.

00:43:23:06 - 00:43:27:15
I feel like they would have this kind of disgust reaction.

00:43:28:10 - 00:43:32:24
The issue then, I think, is that in our society, so much of black culture

00:43:34:04 - 00:43:36:24
celebrates and perpetuates hyper masculinity.

00:43:36:24 - 00:43:37:22
In black men.

00:43:37:22 - 00:43:40:22
Having black men, we perpetuate it ourselves as well.

00:43:40:23 - 00:43:43:11
So it's just really sort of complicated.

00:43:43:11 - 00:43:45:16
And again, I think like that's when I when I was saying

00:43:45:16 - 00:43:49:13
I've always found it quite difficult to be around really confident black men.

00:43:49:13 - 00:43:52:16
What I meant to say was hyper masculine black men, because I've always

00:43:52:16 - 00:43:55:16
wanted this softer side of me to sort of come out.

00:43:55:23 - 00:43:59:16
But I knew that around these men, I could have, I couldn't, I couldn't express it.

00:44:00:02 - 00:44:03:06
I was just going to say, I wonder if it's something to do with what you said about,

00:44:04:05 - 00:44:05:04
you see blackness.

00:44:05:04 - 00:44:08:04
You see a problem that we talked about earlier, that trope.

00:44:09:05 - 00:44:12:19
If people are used to seeing blackness and seeing a problem and yet

00:44:13:02 - 00:44:16:23
having a big dick, we and hyper masculine, that's the thing that celebrated

00:44:17:07 - 00:44:20:06
I wonder if that might be feeding into why.

00:44:20:06 - 00:44:23:06
That is something that's much easier to accept and portray.

00:44:23:15 - 00:44:24:10
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

00:44:24:10 - 00:44:25:23
Absolutely. Yeah. You know it's

00:44:27:08 - 00:44:27:16
yeah.

00:44:27:16 - 00:44:30:21
If like I said because there is some rewards

00:44:30:21 - 00:44:34:22
you can get in life and society by, by some of these things, you know,

00:44:34:23 - 00:44:36:17
you know maybe you're good at sports right.

00:44:36:17 - 00:44:40:00
Maybe you attract a lot of women and then these things can seem good.

00:44:40:00 - 00:44:44:04
But actually you know what is happening to the person.

00:44:44:04 - 00:44:44:18
You know what I mean?

00:44:44:18 - 00:44:48:04
You know, you yes, I think is great.

00:44:48:04 - 00:44:51:11
It's great to be good at sports and it's great to be sort of

00:44:51:23 - 00:44:54:18
have sexual prowess or whatever.

00:44:54:18 - 00:44:57:11
But ultimately you still have to be a person, you know?

00:44:57:11 - 00:44:58:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. -And we’re not shaming any of theose things

00:44:58:16 - 00:44:59:16
No, no, no, this is about.

00:44:59:16 - 00:45:01:12
Yeah it's about but but but for me

00:45:01:12 - 00:45:05:10
I think I think I think what it is as well is, it's expectations.

00:45:05:15 - 00:45:08:16
You know, it's expectation of what a black man is

00:45:08:16 - 00:45:11:16
and what, what what we represent.

00:45:11:24 - 00:45:15:23
You know, so a young black boy that smashes things

00:45:15:23 - 00:45:19:22
and is aggressive, you know, that that's a sort of ten year old boy.

00:45:21:09 - 00:45:21:23
The reason

00:45:21:23 - 00:45:24:24
they're not looking into whether it's because of trauma,

00:45:25:00 - 00:45:27:00
whether he's got issues, whether it's something else happened

00:45:27:00 - 00:45:29:22
in his life, is because that's what they expect.

00:45:29:22 - 00:45:31:17
That's what black boys do.

00:45:31:17 - 00:45:35:16
I think that is why it's one so much harder to then acknowledge

00:45:35:16 - 00:45:38:22
this thing and accept this thing and be like, you need support and help,

00:45:39:24 - 00:45:41:07
and then finding it.

00:45:41:07 - 00:45:44:13
Because just as a little bit of research for our episode,

00:45:44:13 - 00:45:47:13
I was looking at, national charities

00:45:47:16 - 00:45:51:03
that focus on child sexual abuse, which in themselves there's about 3 or 4.

00:45:51:03 - 00:45:52:05
We've not got a lot to choose.

00:45:52:05 - 00:45:55:11
Yeah, it's not a lot that specialized in child sexual abuse

00:45:56:07 - 00:45:59:05
that then have an arm for men rarer still

00:45:59:05 - 00:46:02:21
there's one charity I think that focuses on men's abuse national

00:46:03:06 - 00:46:06:13
that then have a specific section for black men.

00:46:06:16 - 00:46:07:17
I couldn't find it.

00:46:07:17 - 00:46:09:18
I hope there's something out there.

00:46:09:18 - 00:46:13:09
But even if there is, is one little charity

00:46:13:09 - 00:46:16:18
against the whole problem, the whole big wide scale of the problem,

00:46:17:18 - 00:46:20:18
even to get to the stage where you're like, you need support

00:46:20:19 - 00:46:24:03
and then you can't find that through an organization because

00:46:24:14 - 00:46:28:07
blackness, child sex abuse in black men is not portrayed.

00:46:28:07 - 00:46:29:06
It's not researched.

00:46:29:06 - 00:46:32:05
It's not supported.

00:46:32:05 - 00:46:33:17
How it where do you go from there.

00:46:33:17 - 00:46:35:04
Like and then it might

00:46:35:04 - 00:46:37:20
it could be so dangerous to think, oh, I've gone through all this for nothing

00:46:37:20 - 00:46:39:19
because now I can't even get the support I need.

00:46:39:19 - 00:46:40:16
And that's where I think

00:46:40:16 - 00:46:44:13
workplaces can be so powerful, because, as you said, with this Bupa thing,

00:46:44:24 - 00:46:49:06
you were able to get some sort of therapy like this -Instantly.

00:46:49:06 - 00:46:52:05
And I think a lot of employees, you know, sometimes they come to me and I'm like.

00:46:52:05 - 00:46:55:16
Hi, I'm just this like, honey and I talk about child sexual abuse

00:46:55:16 - 00:46:58:16
in all its glories and dimensions and all of that.

00:46:58:20 - 00:47:01:10
And then workplaces were like, no, we don't want you to come to us like,

00:47:01:10 - 00:47:02:00
what are you going to?

00:47:02:00 - 00:47:03:09
And I'm like,

00:47:03:09 - 00:47:07:14
I know that the stats are at least 1 in 4 of your employees are going through this,

00:47:08:00 - 00:47:11:04
and if not that they've gone through it, they will know someone that's gone for it.

00:47:11:04 - 00:47:14:01
Will it be happening to their children or children that they know?

00:47:14:01 - 00:47:17:12
And such an important way to get into that can be workplaces.

00:47:17:16 - 00:47:20:20
They're probably financing child sexual abuse support through these therapies.

00:47:20:23 - 00:47:22:02
So they don’t even realise -Yeah

00:47:22:02 - 00:47:22:09
Yeah.

00:47:22:09 - 00:47:25:08
So just bringing that to the forefront as well.

00:47:25:08 - 00:47:27:16
Yeah. And so I wanted to ask you about

00:47:27:16 - 00:47:31:09
how do you in terms of finding therapy in that.

00:47:31:09 - 00:47:34:24
Like was that ever a barrier you had to overcome

00:47:34:24 - 00:47:36:18
First thing I did actually well, in tandem.

00:47:36:18 - 00:47:42:06
I actually told my sister and she became my just sort of my sort of anchor really,

00:47:42:06 - 00:47:45:06
you know, like and she just kind of call me and so I'll check in.

00:47:45:12 - 00:47:47:20
But for me, it was, it was just, it was more than just going to therapy.

00:47:47:20 - 00:47:50:21
It was actually just talking, just allowing other people

00:47:50:21 - 00:47:54:03
to kind of be with me, you know, in my,

00:47:55:08 - 00:47:56:13
in my sort of time of need.

00:47:56:13 - 00:47:58:02
So for me, yeah, it was, it was a real it's

00:47:58:02 - 00:48:01:05
a real moment of just being like, I have to share what I'm going through.

00:48:01:05 - 00:48:03:14
And and it was so beautiful, you know? And it was, it was so nice.

00:48:03:14 - 00:48:06:14
And it actually really brought me my sister really close.

00:48:07:02 - 00:48:08:10
So, so it was great as well.

00:48:08:10 - 00:48:11:13
I mean, yeah, it had the opposite effect.

00:48:11:13 - 00:48:15:10
I had the visualization of me dumping my problems on someone.

00:48:15:14 - 00:48:17:19
That was my approach for my whole life.

00:48:17:19 - 00:48:18:07
Until then.

00:48:18:07 - 00:48:24:15
So, so my mum doesn't know about my, abuse because I think I just,

00:48:24:15 - 00:48:28:17
I honestly, honestly don't trust how she's gonna react to it.

00:48:29:04 - 00:48:32:23
And again, I think this is a really big mistrust in the black community of,

00:48:33:17 - 00:48:37:11
you know, mental health services, not just of, you know, of,

00:48:38:00 - 00:48:41:13
you know, doctors, you know, I mean, of GP's because of the history of

00:48:41:19 - 00:48:43:14
abuse and the broken trust.

00:48:45:12 - 00:48:45:19
Yeah.

00:48:45:19 - 00:48:47:16
Like that again in the black community.

00:48:47:19 - 00:48:51:00
And just from getting help because we don't trust the services

00:48:51:00 - 00:48:54:01
that are there, because those services that we're supposed to help us

00:48:54:06 - 00:48:58:17
have harmed us so often in the past, there's a lot of work to, to be done.

00:48:58:17 - 00:49:03:07
We still have this kind of silly mindset that those services go, you know,

00:49:03:07 - 00:49:07:21
going to a therapist and, you know, going to sort of like group for group therapy.

00:49:07:23 - 00:49:11:07
We have this silly idea that these things are for white people.

00:49:11:22 - 00:49:16:09
You know, and yeah, there's just a lot of baggage that we're holding on to that

00:49:16:09 - 00:49:20:04
I think it's time to actually say, let's, let's, let's let that go. Now.

00:49:20:04 - 00:49:22:24
You know, I think I think I think it is important.

00:49:22:24 - 00:49:26:04
Well, one thing I would say, which might be a little bit controversial, is.

00:49:26:12 - 00:49:27:05
Go for. It.

00:49:27:05 - 00:49:30:04
I think I think the black community holds itself back.

00:49:30:04 - 00:49:33:23
I think, you know, like it's like it's like, you know, like I saw it with me.

00:49:34:09 - 00:49:38:02
I decided that I wanted to be able to walk and hold hands with my trauma.

00:49:38:02 - 00:49:40:18
Right. I think as a black community, we have a lot of trauma.

00:49:40:18 - 00:49:44:12
Just, you know, in terms of what England, what Britain has done to us.

00:49:45:03 - 00:49:49:05
But I think at some point we are going to have to make peace,

00:49:49:14 - 00:49:50:13
you know, and hold hands

00:49:50:13 - 00:49:53:22
with that past trauma and really kind of open ourselves up to,

00:49:54:08 - 00:49:56:03
you know, some of the good things in the services

00:49:56:03 - 00:49:58:05
and the help and the support that is out there.

00:49:58:05 - 00:50:01:08
And stop seeing things. Stop seeing things.

00:50:01:08 - 00:50:05:00
As for white people, you know, and as black people, we just

00:50:05:07 - 00:50:08:22
we just go to church and we pray or we just deal with it internally.

00:50:08:22 - 00:50:09:13
We stay quiet.

00:50:09:13 - 00:50:12:10
We don't go on a podcast and talk about it, you know?

00:50:12:10 - 00:50:14:00
Yeah. You know what I mean?

00:50:14:00 - 00:50:15:12
You know, I think personally,

00:50:15:12 - 00:50:18:03
I think we have to hold the black community accountable.

00:50:18:03 - 00:50:20:21
Everyone has a choice. You know, there's always a choice.

00:50:20:21 - 00:50:24:23
And I feel like at times we we choose to not get help.

00:50:25:05 - 00:50:26:21
We choose to stay quiet.

00:50:26:21 - 00:50:28:04
I can't say I could agree.

00:50:29:03 - 00:50:29:13
Especially as

00:50:29:13 - 00:50:31:20
Not a black person.

00:50:31:20 - 00:50:33:14
But I really hear what you're saying.

00:50:33:14 - 00:50:35:15
But one thing I will say from your stories,

00:50:35:15 - 00:50:39:23
I do hear what you're saying, but some of the most organized

00:50:40:07 - 00:50:45:05
and radical and powerful support groups I have seen have come from

00:50:45:05 - 00:50:48:21
black communities who are patching up a system that doesn't serve them.

00:50:49:13 - 00:50:51:06
And they're always underfunded.

00:50:51:06 - 00:50:52:11
That was so tired.

00:50:52:11 - 00:50:55:11
They've been repeating themselves for God knows how many years.

00:50:56:00 - 00:50:59:18
And when I think about child sexual abuse, I think about how

00:51:00:06 - 00:51:03:02
we've not even begun to even be on this journey

00:51:03:02 - 00:51:05:23
because child sexual abuse isn't even being talked about.

00:51:05:23 - 00:51:08:14
How do we make sure we're including all of these experiences

00:51:08:14 - 00:51:12:07
from the very get go, so that black men get their support so that autistic

00:51:12:07 - 00:51:15:07
people get support so that everybody, you know, has,

00:51:15:18 - 00:51:17:14
you know, because people have been plastering

00:51:17:14 - 00:51:19:23
and dealing on their own for so, so many years.

00:51:19:23 - 00:51:22:05
But I just don't know what that answer is. -Yeah. Yeah.

00:51:22:05 - 00:51:23:20
Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's tough isn't it?

00:51:23:20 - 00:51:27:09
I just I appreciate that external factors

00:51:27:09 - 00:51:30:14
can be against you and can be systemically against you.

00:51:30:17 - 00:51:32:16
But as long as there's power, as long as there's the will

00:51:32:16 - 00:51:36:02
within me to fight against that, I will fight against it.

00:51:36:13 - 00:51:39:00
So yeah. So for me, you know, like it's I appreciate that. Yeah.

00:51:39:00 - 00:51:41:04
If the system is against you, that's a hard fight.

00:51:41:04 - 00:51:42:08
That's not an easy fight.

00:51:42:08 - 00:51:45:00
And I know that the system is I've lived, I've experienced.

00:51:45:00 - 00:51:46:07
I've experienced a system being

00:51:46:07 - 00:51:49:01
Against me as a black man.

00:51:49:01 - 00:51:50:07
And I fought against it.

00:51:50:07 - 00:51:53:16
I didn't always win, but I won enough, you know, to to keep going

00:51:54:03 - 00:51:56:01
and keep moving and systems.

00:51:56:01 - 00:51:58:20
Big systems against me. I'm defeated.

00:51:58:20 - 00:52:02:21
You know, I just I just feel like, you know, whether I need to call a mate,

00:52:02:21 - 00:52:06:00
whether I need to, you know, call my sister if I need to get a crew

00:52:06:07 - 00:52:10:03
or even one of the things I think about as well is that, like you,

00:52:10:03 - 00:52:10:24
sure, the system is big.

00:52:10:24 - 00:52:13:20
It's everywhere. It's all around you, and it's corrupt and it's systemically,

00:52:14:22 - 00:52:15:10
racist.

00:52:15:10 - 00:52:16:11
Right?

00:52:16:11 - 00:52:19:21
But he had me in my living room, in my sofa, in my workplace, in my

00:52:19:23 - 00:52:21:09
in my little corner.

00:52:21:09 - 00:52:24:19
I can, I can, I can create the world that I want you know.

00:52:25:05 - 00:52:25:12
That's,

00:52:25:12 - 00:52:28:12
I guess that power that you talk about, about creating your own pockets

00:52:28:12 - 00:52:30:20
of connection and. Yeah, that's what we're doing on your so far.

00:52:30:20 - 00:52:33:08
We're we're learning. I'm getting so much from you.

00:52:33:08 - 00:52:34:20
We're sharing these experiences.

00:52:34:20 - 00:52:38:04
And yeah, hopefully the more that spread and the more people do that

00:52:38:04 - 00:52:43:08
with their own people and loved ones, then you start to dismantle those archaic.

00:52:43:08 - 00:52:45:05
Structures that what I'm saying you know, like the,

00:52:45:05 - 00:52:48:09
you know, the learnings, the the good vibes, the energy

00:52:48:09 - 00:52:50:07
and the strength I'm getting from from this,

00:52:50:07 - 00:52:53:07
I can take that and I can go somewhere else and

00:52:53:08 - 00:52:56:12
impart that to someone else to, to, you know, to another black person

00:52:56:12 - 00:52:59:04
that is having a good having a hard time, you know what I mean?

00:52:59:04 - 00:53:02:22
Like, we, you know, we can take this today and bring it somewhere else, you know,

00:53:03:02 - 00:53:08:03
and I, I, I call it to, to sort of quote myself, if I will -Of course

00:53:08:13 - 00:53:11:24
I love a line in, in a poem where I say, you know, like you start, you start

00:53:12:16 - 00:53:15:12
little wildfires of change everywhere you go.

00:53:15:12 - 00:53:17:22
My, my mind doesn't work like the system is big.

00:53:17:22 - 00:53:19:20
The Sims is racist, system is bad.

00:53:19:20 - 00:53:21:21
What can we do? Like systems big systems bad

00:53:21:21 - 00:53:23:22
Fuck the system. I'm going to.

00:53:23:22 - 00:53:25:15
I'm going to control what I can control.

00:53:27:01 - 00:53:28:16
You talk so much about sharing.

00:53:28:16 - 00:53:30:03
And like, with your sister.

00:53:30:03 - 00:53:33:15
We’re both fiancées. Not to each other but we have them

00:53:33:15 - 00:53:35:12
Let's go.

00:53:35:12 - 00:53:36:16
Yeah. We’re both engaged

00:53:36:16 - 00:53:38:05
people, have partners

00:53:38:05 - 00:53:41:05
that we really love and trust and have had these conversations with.

00:53:41:08 - 00:53:44:03
And I just wanted to ask you a little bit about that.

00:53:44:03 - 00:53:44:16
You know, like,

00:53:44:16 - 00:53:48:17
why did you choose to talk to the people you chose to in your life?

00:53:48:22 - 00:53:52:07
And what is it that those conversations have done to help you?

00:53:52:24 - 00:53:55:22
Yeah, I mean, well, with with my sister, you know, she

00:53:55:22 - 00:53:58:19
she's kind of just she's really close to me in age.

00:53:58:19 - 00:53:59:09
So, so,

00:53:59:09 - 00:54:03:02
so so that obviously helps because it's that same sort of sense of maturity.

00:54:03:23 - 00:54:04:07
That helps.

00:54:04:07 - 00:54:07:15
But she's just she's just an amazing woman, you know?

00:54:07:15 - 00:54:11:12
She's just she's just a beautiful person and she listens really well

00:54:11:12 - 00:54:12:16
and she really cares.

00:54:12:16 - 00:54:16:12
I sort of, I sort of told you I my I'm closest friends one by one.

00:54:17:07 - 00:54:19:21
And yeah, I just told them because again,

00:54:19:21 - 00:54:22:21
it should be a thing that is out in the open, like,

00:54:23:06 - 00:54:26:21
part of that is being able to share it with with with with with a friend.

00:54:27:00 - 00:54:31:03
If someone was listening to this, who maybe was you.

00:54:31:03 - 00:54:36:01
But at the stage where you just kind of been in the back of their heads,

00:54:37:02 - 00:54:40:02
someone thinks they might have gone through the same thing,

00:54:40:02 - 00:54:43:02
and they're not sure whether or not they should say anything.

00:54:44:18 - 00:54:46:01
What would you say to them?

00:54:46:01 - 00:54:47:13
What would you say to younger you?

00:54:47:13 - 00:54:50:13
But then, because, you know, I could very easily,

00:54:51:02 - 00:54:53:18
after everything that you said and the journey has been,

00:54:53:18 - 00:54:56:18
I could very easily just been like, okay, well, I'm just going to keep burying it.

00:54:56:18 - 00:54:57:17
Then.

00:54:57:17 - 00:54:58:15
You know what?

00:54:58:15 - 00:55:01:15
What would you say to people who might think that way?

00:55:02:12 - 00:55:04:15
I'd say,

00:55:04:15 - 00:55:07:07
I know humans get a bad rap,

00:55:07:07 - 00:55:09:23
but we're actually pretty amazing.

00:55:09:23 - 00:55:14:24
And I think when you give most people the opportunity to show

00:55:14:24 - 00:55:18:05
how kind and how comforting and graceful they are,

00:55:19:05 - 00:55:21:14
they show up and, you know,

00:55:21:14 - 00:55:25:15
and I think, like most of our day to day interactions with the people around us

00:55:25:22 - 00:55:28:22
can kind of be surface level, even sort of family.

00:55:29:13 - 00:55:31:08
But I think everyone has depth.

00:55:31:08 - 00:55:34:08
Everyone thinks about life and death, and we all,

00:55:34:09 - 00:55:37:15
everyone has so much to give.

00:55:38:21 - 00:55:39:23
And so I think just

00:55:39:23 - 00:55:44:08
trusting people, you know, and people will surprise you like

00:55:44:24 - 00:55:48:19
they surprised me with that generosity to listen and take in,

00:55:49:03 - 00:55:51:23
you know, and like really kind of be there for me

00:55:51:23 - 00:55:54:14
and, you know, and sort of

00:55:54:14 - 00:55:57:14
because yeah, like child sex abuse is not easy.

00:55:57:24 - 00:55:59:12
It's not easy to talk about.

00:55:59:12 - 00:56:03:05
It is not an easy thing to, to take on

00:56:03:05 - 00:56:06:05
and taking, you know,

00:56:06:05 - 00:56:08:24
but people did, you know, and people will

00:56:08:24 - 00:56:11:07
because people are amazing

00:56:11:07 - 00:56:14:07
and give them the chance to show you.

00:56:14:16 - 00:56:16:05
That's beautiful.

00:56:16:05 - 00:56:18:23
And also, I would go as far as to say Davy

00:56:18:23 - 00:56:21:18
it’s part of who you are. Like

00:56:22:10 - 00:56:23:05
you choose.

00:56:23:05 - 00:56:26:09
You have that choice in the agency of who you let in, you know.

00:56:26:09 - 00:56:28:16
And for you, that was naturally your sister

00:56:28:16 - 00:56:32:18
or your partner this that and the other but like to accept

00:56:32:18 - 00:56:35:17
and love you in your wholeness and get to know you on that deeper level.

00:56:35:17 - 00:56:38:24
Like, this is something that has happened to you, and you can choose who you let

00:56:39:13 - 00:56:41:03
that in with on that deeper level.

00:56:41:03 - 00:56:43:00
And then yes, it is a conversation

00:56:43:00 - 00:56:46:00
about child sexual abuse, but it's also a conversation about Davy

00:56:46:16 - 00:56:49:16
Things that you've gone through that have made you who you are

00:56:50:00 - 00:56:52:06
and can help explain lots of things that are happened.

00:56:52:06 - 00:56:53:12
Yeah, absolutely.

00:56:53:12 - 00:56:54:11
Yeah. Yeah. No that's absolutely.

00:56:54:11 - 00:56:56:09
Yeah. That is, that is so, so true isn't it.

00:56:56:09 - 00:56:59:02
Yeah. Like yeah it is. It's me. It's who I am you know.

00:56:59:02 - 00:57:00:05
And it's you know it's as

00:57:01:08 - 00:57:02:01
you know what.

00:57:02:01 - 00:57:03:23
What is a close friend but someone that knows

00:57:03:23 - 00:57:07:16
you really intimately and I mean that so and you know and you know, and

00:57:07:16 - 00:57:10:16
this is a part of me that this is this, this is my this is my story.

00:57:12:01 - 00:57:13:24
And. Yeah, but I think it is also important.

00:57:13:24 - 00:57:17:16
Just on that note, though, to make sure that I know,

00:57:18:02 - 00:57:21:23
to make sure that you are in a place where, you know, like

00:57:22:14 - 00:57:27:05
because I think it is also important to not become a burden to your friend,

00:57:27:20 - 00:57:30:20
you know, and I know this again is getting just getting tricky.

00:57:31:01 - 00:57:34:01
But to be kind of clear about what I mean is, is that like,

00:57:34:12 - 00:57:37:01
not every time you talk to your friend has to be about your abuse.

00:57:37:01 - 00:57:38:00
You know what I mean?

00:57:38:00 - 00:57:40:12
You know, because because, yeah. -You don’t wanna be brandished

00:57:40:12 - 00:57:41:12
You know,

00:57:41:12 - 00:57:44:04
I mean, not not every conversation has to be about your abuse, you know, and

00:57:44:04 - 00:57:47:20
and I think also, if you're in a place where you're such, you know, you're

00:57:47:20 - 00:57:51:05
sort of struggling emotionally, obviously that support from a friend is great.

00:57:51:10 - 00:57:53:04
But again, you know, like you have to appreciate that

00:57:53:04 - 00:57:56:09
your friend is a person and every person has limits

00:57:56:09 - 00:57:59:02
and every person needs to also look after themselves.

00:57:59:02 - 00:58:02:12
So, so, so I think it's just about being self-aware as well,

00:58:02:21 - 00:58:05:19
you know, about how much support you ask for.

00:58:05:19 - 00:58:08:21
Yeah, because I think you don't want the friendship

00:58:08:21 - 00:58:12:01
to just become about support because that's not a friendship.

00:58:12:01 - 00:58:15:08
That's that's a that's a support worker, you know.

00:58:15:08 - 00:58:16:08
You know what I mean.

00:58:16:08 - 00:58:17:10
So so for me it's not for me.

00:58:17:10 - 00:58:17:15
Yeah.

00:58:17:15 - 00:58:20:16
Like, you know again like it's a hard balance

00:58:20:16 - 00:58:23:03
and you're not always going to find the perfect balance.

00:58:23:03 - 00:58:24:07
And that's okay.

00:58:24:07 - 00:58:26:06
But I think as long as you're aware that like,

00:58:26:06 - 00:58:30:05
you know, you're not kind of putting too much on your friend and let's keep.

00:58:30:06 - 00:58:30:14
Yeah.

00:58:30:14 - 00:58:33:12
And I would say almost that is a worry.

00:58:33:12 - 00:58:36:14
I had so much more that I going to consistently be the burden.

00:58:36:14 - 00:58:40:09
And I will say, like when you like when having that conversation with whoever

00:58:40:13 - 00:58:46:04
you choose to have with, you know, just saying, like, look, I'm not going to be.

00:58:46:04 - 00:58:48:21
Chatting about this every single time I talk to you -Yeah

00:58:48:21 - 00:58:50:23
You're not you're always crunching eggshells around me.

00:58:50:23 - 00:58:54:19
But I think sometimes we're so worried about being a burden that it holds us back

00:58:54:19 - 00:58:56:00
from saying anything at all.

00:58:56:00 - 00:58:59:06
But it doesn't mean that once this has come out about you,

00:58:59:06 - 00:59:02:03
that you're forever tarnished with that brush. You know? So like.

00:59:02:03 - 00:59:06:11
I know it's very rich coming from me, who's literally made my career my brand.

00:59:06:12 - 00:59:09:12
Yeah, it's the fact that I'm a child sex abuse survivor, you know, and.

00:59:09:24 - 00:59:11:17
But throughout that journey I've had.

00:59:11:17 - 00:59:14:06
I've had those experiences too, you know, that you.

00:59:14:06 - 00:59:15:17
Keep it quiet for so long.

00:59:15:17 - 00:59:16:18
You know, I tested the water

00:59:16:18 - 00:59:19:17
by telling a couple of school friends because I remembered mine.

00:59:19:17 - 00:59:23:02
Throughout that I told ex-partners and my current partner,

00:59:23:02 - 00:59:26:02
and then eventually it blew up in the family because.

00:59:26:03 - 00:59:27:23
And someone else found out

00:59:27:23 - 00:59:30:22
that someone else disclosed on my behalf because they also got abused

00:59:30:22 - 00:59:33:22
Then I just felt like I had to say, yeah.

00:59:34:02 - 00:59:38:10
And then in that sort of weird period between

00:59:38:23 - 00:59:42:13
feeling like I was forced to tell people because this was all coming out,

00:59:43:04 - 00:59:44:21
but then needing support.

00:59:44:21 - 00:59:46:10
Oh my God, Davy

00:59:46:10 - 00:59:50:06
I remember one time I was clubbing, I was just out in the club.

00:59:50:18 - 00:59:52:06
It was an art school club as well.

00:59:52:06 - 00:59:55:05
So it's like super edgy, everything like out in Peckham whatever.

00:59:55:05 - 00:59:56:00
Oh God.

00:59:56:00 - 01:00:00:09
And I just got so drunk and my friend was taking me to the club

01:00:00:09 - 01:00:01:19
somehow being like, please stay.

01:00:01:19 - 01:00:04:21
Like I've looked after you for an extra hour to get you to this club.

01:00:04:23 - 01:00:07:04
Like you're making yourself sick and you're going in with me.

01:00:07:04 - 01:00:09:08
Like I was like, yeah, okay, fine, let's do it.

01:00:09:08 - 01:00:12:18
I mean, I just went by like, I'm just going through all this thing

01:00:14:07 - 01:00:15:20
Got a abused and I just was like,

01:00:15:20 - 01:00:18:20
this next day I remember woke up and I was hanging and I was like.

01:00:19:16 - 01:00:23:12
I can’t like, I don’t think this guy's ever going to ask me again, maybe he think’s I’m drunk.

01:00:23:13 - 01:00:25:16
Maybe he doesn't remember. It was so awkward.

01:00:25:16 - 01:00:27:15
We've remained friends for, like, we're still friends.

01:00:27:15 - 01:00:30:02
Oh, another fellow film filming friend.

01:00:30:02 - 01:00:32:05
Amazing. -And then like

01:00:32:05 - 01:00:33:03
ages later I bought.

01:00:33:03 - 01:00:35:22
Up and I was like, you know what? Yeah.

01:00:35:22 - 01:00:38:21
Just to say, all those years ago, like, you must have.

01:00:38:21 - 01:00:41:18
Been really wondering what the hell I was talking about,

01:00:41:18 - 01:00:44:04
because I've never spoken to you about it since.

01:00:44:04 - 01:00:47:21
And he said to me, Sophia, I'm so glad that you brought this up,

01:00:47:21 - 01:00:49:00
because in truth, like

01:00:49:00 - 01:00:51:23
I've been wanting to ask you it for years, but I was so worried.

01:00:51:23 - 01:00:53:07
About me triggering you.

01:00:53:07 - 01:00:55:18
Oh, and I thought you were so drunk you were saying just that.

01:00:55:18 - 01:00:57:22
You were just telling me. And it was a big mistake.

01:00:57:22 - 01:01:01:23
So, like, I guess what I'm offering is, like, the other side of that story, right?

01:01:02:02 - 01:01:04:18
Because, like, obviously, lesson learned.

01:01:04:18 - 01:01:08:00
But I'm not going to be just like blurting out drunk to people.

01:01:08:00 - 01:01:11:00
But it happens. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah.

01:01:11:15 - 01:01:14:24
There's such a fear of being a trigger to someone, even for the person

01:01:14:24 - 01:01:17:15
receiving the disclosure. That leads to further silence.

01:01:17:15 - 01:01:17:20
Yeah.

01:01:17:20 - 01:01:20:20
So, you know, just just remembering, like,

01:01:21:00 - 01:01:23:08
if you are worried that you are going to be forever

01:01:23:08 - 01:01:26:06
the one that's all we're gonna ever do is talk about the abuse.

01:01:26:06 - 01:01:29:00
Remember? Like that. It's been on that person's mind for a while.

01:01:29:00 - 01:01:30:24
And then most likely kept it quiet.

01:01:30:24 - 01:01:33:18
And they're capable of keeping it quiet.

01:01:33:18 - 01:01:35:12
But we want to make that a happy silence.

01:01:35:12 - 01:01:37:23
We want to make it, you know, like,

01:01:37:23 - 01:01:41:08
every time I see you, I hope sometimes we're just having a nice time.

01:01:41:14 - 01:01:42:12
Meeting your friends.

01:01:42:12 - 01:01:45:03
meeting your friends, meeting your fiancée eating some nice food. And we're not just.

01:01:45:03 - 01:01:47:03
Always talking about abuse, but that's the choice.

01:01:47:03 - 01:01:49:00
Like, that's the silence. Out of choice. Absolutely.

01:01:49:00 - 01:01:51:15
As opposed to a silence out of fear and being forced.

01:01:51:15 - 01:01:53:15
Absolutely, absolutely. For sure, for sure, for sure.

01:01:53:15 - 01:01:57:04
I guess always, you know, with with more time than you've had to kind of,

01:01:57:16 - 01:02:01:06
I guess I call it kind of mastering your abuse, you know,

01:02:02:03 - 01:02:05:06
you will not you're not to be able to talk about your abuse

01:02:05:06 - 01:02:09:01
and your trauma in a way that isn't sort of, you know, that,

01:02:09:14 - 01:02:14:03
you know, that is, again, that is a sort of like a casual chat,

01:02:14:05 - 01:02:15:15
you know, you know, you know, you know, there's

01:02:15:15 - 01:02:19:10
no need to have that weight and that heaviness as you know, as, as,

01:02:19:11 - 01:02:22:16
as it doesn't, you know, as it does at the beginning.

01:02:22:16 - 01:02:24:05
So yeah. So yeah.

01:02:24:05 - 01:02:26:09
Would you have ever thought you'd be sitting on this sofa?

01:02:28:01 - 01:02:29:11
No, you know what I mean.

01:02:29:11 - 01:02:32:03
I'd say, well, I mean it is my sofa, but

01:02:32:03 - 01:02:34:13
okay. Yeah. Okay.

01:02:34:13 - 01:02:35:09
In the weeds I get.

01:02:35:09 - 01:02:37:16
Yeah, yeah I would.

01:02:37:16 - 01:02:39:14
never ever as a teen.

01:02:39:14 - 01:02:40:24
Thought I would be sitting on a sofa

01:02:40:24 - 01:02:43:23
having like a relatively relaxed conversation as

01:02:43:23 - 01:02:45:14
Well about something so dark.

01:02:45:14 - 01:02:47:17
So it is possible.

01:02:47:17 - 01:02:48:17
Yeah. Really possible.

01:02:48:17 - 01:02:51:06
Yeah. And it's not just on you as well as on the people around you

01:02:51:12 - 01:02:54:19
No absolutely, like I said, you know, like my,

01:02:54:20 - 01:02:58:22
my thing that the I always say is try, you know, just try

01:02:59:07 - 01:03:02:17
and you know, you and, and you will figure out the balance,

01:03:02:17 - 01:03:04:13
you know, because you aren't always going to get the balance right.

01:03:04:13 - 01:03:08:07
The, you know, that there will be times when if you talk about it too much, maybe,

01:03:08:07 - 01:03:12:18
maybe, maybe, you know, maybe you're having a really tough week, you know, and

01:03:13:07 - 01:03:16:22
but if your friends are real ones and they really care and they love you,

01:03:17:13 - 01:03:19:12
it's not going to drive them away, you know what I mean?

01:03:19:12 - 01:03:23:24
So so it's like even if you talk about it, that's fine because we're learning.

01:03:24:03 - 01:03:25:13
Yeah. But yeah, we're we're learning rolling.

01:03:25:13 - 01:03:26:20
And that's just life.

01:03:26:20 - 01:03:27:14
Life is like

01:03:27:14 - 01:03:30:07
we're constantly trying to find a balance of work and play,

01:03:30:07 - 01:03:32:04
you know, of sharing and not sharing, you know.

01:03:33:23 - 01:03:34:04
So yeah,

01:03:34:04 - 01:03:37:12
like ultimately if, if your friends love you and they care for you, you know, like,

01:03:37:18 - 01:03:39:24
they'll be there and they will stick by you.

01:03:39:24 - 01:03:43:10
But I think, I think just, just, just even being aware of it is just a start

01:03:43:21 - 01:03:46:15
that in itself is is plenty.

01:03:48:14 - 01:03:51:00
That love stuff is like a really good place to end, actually.

01:03:51:00 - 01:03:53:24
And you know, what I always say on this podcast is,

01:03:53:24 - 01:03:56:21
if you so much has watched the video, listen to the podcast,

01:03:56:21 - 01:03:59:06
and then tell one person that you've seen it.

01:03:59:06 - 01:04:03:11
That's such an easy entry way to kind of build familiarity

01:04:03:11 - 01:04:05:15
with your story, and then someone might be able

01:04:05:15 - 01:04:07:21
to share something that they find that relates to you,

01:04:07:21 - 01:04:10:21
and you never know where that conversation ends up.

01:04:11:01 - 01:04:13:01
And again, like that lightness that you feel

01:04:13:01 - 01:04:17:11
and it sounds like you're in a place now where you're like, really in control of

01:04:17:19 - 01:04:22:07
visualizing your trauma, of understanding your place with anger in the world like.

01:04:22:13 - 01:04:23:21
all of those things, it’s better

01:04:23:21 - 01:04:25:11
right? -Yeah. No, it's it's really good.

01:04:25:11 - 01:04:28:17
It's really nice, you know, because I, you know, it's it's I might this was

01:04:28:19 - 01:04:33:05
this was always my goal to be able to make peace with my trauma and my abuse.

01:04:33:05 - 01:04:34:20
You know, you are not your trauma.

01:04:34:20 - 01:04:37:17
You are not your abuse. Yeah, you really are not.

01:04:37:17 - 01:04:38:15
You're not.

01:04:38:15 - 01:04:40:01
You're not and doesn't define you.

01:04:40:01 - 01:04:43:01
So get out there andkeep smiling.

01:04:43:08 - 01:04:44:18
Share with the world -And share with the world

01:04:44:18 - 01:04:45:15
Yeah. And tell everybody.

01:04:48:02 - 01:04:49:07
Oh thank you Davy

01:04:49:07 - 01:04:50:18
Thank you, thank you. So yeah.

01:04:50:18 - 01:04:52:22
No worries. Awesome bye 

01:07:55:09 - 01:07:57:10
I haven't told many people

01:07:57:10 - 01:08:00:10
about what happens to me as a, you know, as a boy.

01:08:00:18 - 01:08:04:01
And so telling a group of strangers,

01:08:04:09 - 01:08:07:09
one of them being in Denmark, you know,

01:08:07:09 - 01:08:10:11
was definitely not on my list of things to do that day.

01:08:11:09 - 01:08:13:09
Can you imagine me trying to be a tough guy?

01:08:13:09 - 01:08:16:04
Screw facing. Little skinny? I'm not a screw face.

01:08:17:18 - 01:08:18:18
Like, would you have ever

01:08:18:18 - 01:08:21:18
thought you'd be sitting on this type of.

01:08:21:23 - 01:08:23:12
No. You know what I mean?

01:08:23:12 - 01:08:24:19
Well, I mean, it is my sofa, but.