Dating someone who experienced Childhood Sexual Abuse

In an extremely rare and intimate episode, Sophia interviews her fiancé Michael (also known as Tig), about how they have navigated triggers, the future, and disclosing to each other. This is the first time the two have exper discussed this part of their relationship publically. 

Note: These are the experiences of a cis m/f couple, where one person has experience of childhood sexual abuse and one doesn't. We know that this experience doesn't count for everyone, but we hope that through sharing this experience we can encourage similar discussions within other couples about what works best for them.  

Transcript

0:05

It's one of the most special things I've learned from you, actually. That thing during intimacy. You know, if I've chosen another person to spend my life with, I may have never had this conversation. Because I came onto the scene, so late after - I love that you're calling it a scene. Welcome to this really special episode of Secrets Worth Sharing. I'm actually joined with my fianceé in this episode. We'll get to chat to you in a second. And this episode is all about discussing dating when someone has been abused as a child. I'm Michael, or Tig to my friends. Sophia and I have been dating about seven years now and I popped the question in March this year. We’re engaged! It's almost a year now. And yeah, happy to talk, happy to discuss my experience and everything. Why don't we start by first talking about when you found out about me? Do you remember? I do, yeah, I remember it very well. It was actually before we started dating. We were in a play together. Soph was acting, and I was producing. And, yeah, we were in London for the day, rehearsing. Yeah, I can’t remember how it came about, but there was a lady doing readings like, just like speaking and talking about, like, tarot cards. It was, I was just sitting there, you know, I had nothing to say. I was just there to support you I guess. If you were scared of the superstitious stuff, I can't remember because it was your cards that were being read and I was just present. And yeah, you suddenly spilled out this entire story to this woman. And yeah, I was just this sort of bystander and I’d sort of been brought along for the ride. I found it fascinating because it was completely new to me. I'd never known anyone who had experienced it or I'd never known that they had experienced child sex abuse. I hadn't heard about it in school, really, either. It wasn't on the topic list between me and my friends for sure. And yeah, it was this whole sort of world that opened out before me. We came out afterwards and all of our friends who were also rehearsing, they were just waiting there. You just look me in the eyes, and we just had this really long cuddle and I look over your shoulder at my friends and I just sort of shook my head at them. I was like, phew, you know, that was deep. But they didn't press or anything. We didn't talk about what had happened in that room, though, I don’t think, that day. Just wanted to, I guess, move on, in a way, from that moment and not get into it then. And then obviously after that we went to Edinburgh, we did the play together and we talked about it in drips and drabs because we were sharing a room and there was a lot of time, just two of us. And I think we were starting to get feelings for each other. So we had a lot of conversations. Yeah, I felt like you could open yourself up to me a little bit more because we'd had that experience and also because I kind of was an outsider. From my perspective, I think at the time I recognized that probably helped quite a lot. Yeah, so the time I think you came into my life, I was, my abuser was going through a court case with me. Right. I didn't want to be at home. The whole reason I even went to this Edinburgh play, which is how I met you, was because I was like, how can I justifiably be as far away from home as possible? I don't want to deal with it. I didn't have a great relationship with that, and back there and people back there. I felt quite broken. But I don't think I was admitting it to myself. I don't know, it was just the way I found of us getting closer. Because for me, when I tell somebody that is like my ultimate, I trust you and I think we're at a level - at least at that time. Now I'll tell bloody anyone walking down the street. But like at that time it was like I am telling you this because I really, really feel like I trust you. I do feel like chemistry has a part to play in the whole, like helping someone deal with like the hangover of child sex abuse. Like, I've never had a particular way of talking or particular way of holding you or whatever that can make you feel better. I think it's always just been presence alone that you've needed and requested and that has actually helped. Yeah, the biggest thing that I have sought from from you support-wise has definitely been the physical and the presence. That's something that drew me to you already as a partner really early on. I didn't want an answer. I didn't want to talk about it and process it. And you didn't have the context anyway, you know. So I didn't want to talk about it in that sense. I just wanted you to know. And I think the fact that I was brought in on that journey almost immediately after meeting you has really helped our relationship because we started on that platform of connectivity from almost day one. We've had sort of like three stages where when I first met you, we first started talking about it. I, I like, because I wasn't confident in our relationship, I wasn't, you know, I didn't know the story all that well. I was just there, you know, physically present. I said some kind words and I hugged you but I didn't do more than that. And then the second stage, I think when we started going out then I think I started to revert to a typical guy way of solving a problem, which is to try and like logically analyze it. Like whenever you had these feelings, I'd be like, right, let’s talk about this, sometimes even playing devil's advocate and being like, let’s try and work through this, like with words, which was just completely wrong. It didn't help at all. And I dunno, it might help some people. It definitely didn't help you. And so the third stage was almost reverting back to what had happened, you know, straight away. And so yeah, you’ve just got to sort of find a way to cope with it. And that changes throughout time, really. Like we were just talking about when I first met you, you used to rub your like your collarbone on your left hand side, actually, whenever you felt anxious. I used to do this, I used to go like that. Yeah. And sometimes, like really vigorously when you're feeling really bad. God, I haven’t done that in ages! Yeah, yeah. So the reason I mention that is because that was something that we used to do all the time. And like, I started to pick up on it and like I would sometimes rub your collarbone when you're feeling a bit anxious and it would help. And that felt like an amazing thing to do. And then after a while it kind of didn’t have that same effect. We moved to different things. Very much when I first met you, it was very raw. You were almost experiencing symptoms on a daily basis, several times a day because of everything that had just gone on with the court case. It was so visceral for you at that time that I think you needed that really strong physical response. And then gradually, as it sort of developed into a more like mellow pattern within your life, we've found other ways of dealing with it, which aren't quite as overtly physical. Yeah, there's two things I want to talk about here. So, the first one is when I started to actually tell you the story of what happened right. It was after that kind of like initial chase stage and like I guess dating, girlfriend and boyfriend kind of thing. I’d say it was about four months in. I can't quite remember if I'm honest, but I remember thinking he needs to know the full story about like the actual abuse and what happened. The sort of elephant in the room, wasn’t it? Yeah. And I was just starting to pick up on - I felt like you had questions, like especially when it came to different types of physical touch, things that I'd gone through, like specifically, what was okay and what wasn't okay with my own body and things like that. I was sensing that you might have wanted to ask me or at least know more, but wasn't quite sure how. We were in your uni room and I just said, look I think today's a day where I’d quite like to tell you everything if that's all right. And I went through it all, didn't I? And I explained up until that day how it started it with my abuser, things that he did, things that he'd done, the way it gradually got more and more extreme, the way I’d distance myself from the situation, the people I’d told, what happened when I finally told my family, the court case, everyone’s different responses, and the whole conversation took about two and a bit hours. It took a long time. Yeah. Early in the morning it was as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one AM sort of thing. I think we were both facing the ceiling. Do you remember? I can picture it really distinctly. We were both facing the ceiling, right, and I was just talking up at the ceiling and we both had a bit of a cry together and then it weirdly turned into something that was really special and really intimate after. Yeah, yeah. I think because you sort of beared so much of yourself to me. I think it's probably the first time you’d seen me with tears in my eyes or whatever, you know, it was like a really like intense emotional moment. And yeah, I think strangely it just felt really organic to naturally fall into like some surprising intimacy, I guess, after that. And it was lovely. It's funny. There's only a few things I can remember that vividly from my past, but that night is one of them. Ah really? I didn’t know that. Yeah. Anyway, one thing I remember from from that point is like I obviously was feeling incredibly emotional when I heard all this, because it is quite an extreme thing to hear. I'd never heard anyone's like victim statements or I'd never heard anyone talk about child sex abuse physically, I guess, before. And I remember sort of tearing up a little bit, but thinking, it's not about me. Let's not, you know, I didn't want to show that to you. And I tried to just take my own emotion out of it because I didn't think that would help necessarily. That's something I thought might be quite fun to talk about - what you expect from someone you've disclosed to, what you expect from them emotionally, because we never really talked about it. My sort of way of doing it has always been to take myself out of it emotionally. I've never been sure if that's something that you've wanted. You've been curious and you've asked me like, what would happen if you saw or met my abuser? What would you do then? And I, I guess maybe it's because I'd always been taking my emotions out of the picture, but I've never been in a position where I felt like vicious, like hatred or anything towards them. That's something I think that's been really interesting for me, is that you never met my abuser, whereas my ex did know my abuser, and not only knew them, but had to go to parties with them and things like that. And I've always been really curious because he very much took my lead. In my family, we do like a Secret Santa every year, but only for the adults, and my first year of Secret Santa, I got my abuser and my ex went, forget about it, I'm sorting it, and literally just went to the charity shop and just bought the most random things, like wrapped it for me and was like sorted, it’s done. When you first heard about me saying about that I'd gone through this, did it change the way you thought about me? Yes, I think so. Definitely. Pretty much overwhelmingly positively, to be honest. Just to think, like you’ve had that much to go through from such a young age, because the first time you talked about it, you did say, you know, that it had happened to you very young and you’d kept it for basically a decade until you were forced to talk about it. You talked about how hard it was for you to, sort of, keep schtum with all your friends and family and everything like that in what was a very complicated situation. And I just thought, you know, when I was an eight year old, you know, I was just reading Captain Underpants books, and everything was so, like, bright and cozy because I think that innocent stage of a child's life is something really precious. And I think that really needs to be sort of cherished. And that was a real eye-opener for me. And yeah, I just thought, what strength, you know, from that early age to have understood that you didn't want to ruin your family's life by pushing that out and you thought, with such a sense of duty, I'll keep that within myself. But then that is also a very childish thing to do as well, isn't it? In a way, like children, like status quo in a way, and they don't like to suddenly throw things out there and think this could upset everything. And what if Mummy will get annoyed with me? And when they don't have that full amount of information and the context to know that actually Mummy won't get annoyed with me, you know, all of this was just going through my head and I thought, Christ, what a life this person's had. Obviously, I felt pity as well, you know, which is I guess, natural, but also a privileged thing to feel. I ask you, because a lot of people are nervous about telling their partner or someone they're dating for fear that there's a lot of shame - not to put it really creepy, but like you’re tarnished meat, kind of thing, or you’re a tragic person or I’ve suddenly looked down on you as somebody who's had this rubbish happen to them, kind of thing, or also the fear of their partner just not knowing what to say and just completely rejecting it, or that it completely changes the relationship in a way that they're not happy with, to the point where they’re like I wish I’d just stayed silent about this. I can honestly say I never, well, at least I can't remember thinking that. And it certainly didn't put me off you in any way. You know, but again, that might be because it's almost the first thing I learned about you, you know, I think we are a very interesting case in that way. I mean, I haven't dated many people, admittedly, but there was someone I was like sort of seeing. I told him about what had happened, but the way I decided to tell him was because it was around the time I had to write a victim personal statement. So it's like a piece of paper that says everything that's gone through to you as a victim’s perspective and how it's affected you. And I was in the middle of writing it, and I just had a day, I was like, oh, this is so annoying that I have to write this on top of all my schoolwork and I just showed this person that I was kind of seeing, and I was just like, oh, I'm just writing this thing. And like, I just thought it'd be interesting to tell you that this is what I’d gone through, and what do you think? And they were just looking through it and was like, why are you telling me this? Like, I don't understand. Why is this here? Why is this in front of me? I don't want to read it. Like what? And then we just, I was just like oh okay, then I just never brought it up with them ever again. And I just remember making a slight mental note of like, okay, this person isn't ready to talk about this, but also doesn't have the emotional capacity to talk about this - it’s kind of affected the way that I see them. And I don't know if this is the right thing to share, but I've always used it as a bit of a litmus test for friendships and for relationships, obviously. I'm starting to learn in myself what a good response is, and there's things that you say that I don't always agree with. Like even just now the thing you said about the, you know, mummy of course will be fine with it. Well that's actually sadly not the case for quite a lot of people. It doesn't always happen for everyone that they have that. But that's the thing. Like there's things that you've said that I don't necessarily agree with, but we can still have that discussion, right? Because the heart of what you're trying to do is that you've put me first. Whereas there's been other people in my life who, even if they've said the wrong thing, I see and I feel through the intention that maybe they don't care enough about me or about the relationship, whatever it is to show that, show up in that way. It's part of your career now as well and it's part of your personality to be open about it. I wanted to move on a little bit to talk about some side effects that I have that I think are mostly due to my abuse that I think you see a lot more than other people. The first one I kind of wanted to talk about was maybe more intimate moments without going into too much details. But you said a lot about like the fact that I rub my collarbone when I'm feeling anxious. A lot of people don't know that. Another thing that I used to get a lot was, like, little tics, do you remember? Yeah, yeah. I used to, like, if something was mentioned, like, I see a picture of a similar pajamas that I wore when I used to get abused or like I think about the area or even like sometimes the countryside. My abuser loved the Queen. So for me, the royal family, for many reasons, but partly for this reason, is a bit, like, sus for me. I used to just do, like, do you remember, like, a little tic. Very subtle. Not many people know it. And particularly during more intimate moments. I felt in times when I was more triggered, this would happen a lot more and I'd like to chat about how we dealt with that. Sure, sure. So I think the first few times it happened, it's obviously like a bit of a weird experience because I think whoever you're being intimate with, if you then have that experience and you are triggered in some way, I think that person that you're with is naturally going to think like the boundary between me and her abuser is almost, like, being taken away or almost being merged into the same person unconsciously in their mind, which is, it's hard to comprehend really, and come to terms with. It is an unconscious thing. You can't help it. It's hard to deal with. But also like I think - so the first few times it happened to us, we would just completely stop being intimate. We just let it go. Talked about it, hugged it out, went about our lives, but afterwards I think we were more able to just almost snap out of it, and you know, I developed things like focusing you on me as a person. It might have been activating like a memory of me and you, or like focusing you in on my face or whatever, almost like reminding you that it's me. I guess that sounds like quite a natural thing to do when the person is thinking like, oh, you know, that person I'm with is slipping into my abuser. It’s a natural thing to go, no I’m not, it's me. But there are different ways you can, you can do that. And it's sort of a bit like with dissociation, disassociation, dissociation? Disassociation. Yeah, it's the same thing, really, in a way. So do you want to talk about the symptoms? Yeah. Before I do, I just wanted to say, it's one of the most special things I've learned from you, actually, that thing during intimacy, because I didn't even realize that I was starting to do it. But there'd be like certain ways we touch or hug or like certain. It's my hands, isn't it? Yeah, it's your hands. It's your hands. Especially if I can't see you. So, like, in moments where I can't see you, I instantly, I'm taken back to that place and I hate it. I hate it so much. And I remember because it first started happening at uni when we just had got together and I was finally like so happy falling in love and all of these things. And then all of the time that I was getting intimate with this person, I’d be taken back to that moment from the person, like from the person I loved the most, and then the person who's trust, who's broke my trust the most, they were, as you said, merging, you just literally just look at me. You were like, it's just me. Just look at me. It's just me. And it would help so much. And I don't even know where you got that idea from. It’s simple isn’t it, I guess, really, but - Yeah, I guess. But even I didn't even think to know that that's what I needed. I was offered therapy after the court case, and I didn't feel like I needed it at the time. But in uni I was, got a lot of deadlines, a lot on my plate. I was trying to deal with all of this court stuff. Then found out that my abuser got out of jail with - not to my knowledge and it was the social worker who’d messed things up that then told me by accident and it suddenly was like, whoa, there was an area of my life that I really thought I had in a pocket. And it was in my control, and whenever it was brought up, it was because I had brought it up, or it's because I'd entered a space where I knew it was going to be brought up. And then all of a sudden these worlds started merging. And then that started happening with my romantic relationship. I just, it was, I was really struggling and I went to the counselor at uni and well, that's a whole other experience, my counselor crying on me and then I had to comfort her and then coming back to you and being like, I've never done this before, but I swear they’re not supposed to cry to you. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Looking back, it was, what, four months in? It's a lot to deal with about somebody when you’re first dating. And I was really worried that I would become a burden almost to you. Like I knew you still loved me and supported me. But we’re also still getting to know each other. Am I too much? But actually you never made me feel like that because you made it so that I could process and think about these things. And it's only now that I look back, I'm like, wow. Like, not me personally, but my life meant that there was quite a lot for you, for us to deal with in that early stage of our relationship. One thing that I wanted to touch on was when you said that me coming out publicly meant it was easier for you to talk to your friends about it. Oh, yeah, yeah. So yeah, because I'm necessarily a bit old school, I don't - I never talked about it to my friends. I never really - I briefly mentioned it to my mum and she was really good. We had a chat with, we had a chat together and she was very kind. And I knew that you were gonna do this. And yeah, exactly. And you’d given me your permission. A lot of people put us on a pedestal as a couple, which I love, obviously. But I also think there’s moments where it's nice to be open about the fact that we are obviously dealing with things as well within our relationship. And this is one of them. And I think being open about that, it's certainly made us stronger as a couple. That is not to say I wish that I'd had this experience, and it’s not to say that I’m happy this happened to me, but I'm trying to take the positive from it, and I think it’s part of our relationship and us being open about it is part of that. Because we've had to deal with it from early on, we've naturally developed better ways of communicating and being completely honest and open with each other, which I think has been very helpful in our relationship. One of the other things I'm most grateful to you has been your understanding in the fact that you can't necessarily support me on this in every single way I need you to, right? Because no one can. Like, I don't expect you to be my therapist and just in life you have different friends for different aspects of your life, I have different people I go to for different aspects of this. You know, there's some family members who I go to a lot to speak about the family side. I still talk to my ex about it a lot from the cultural side and understanding how to deal with it from a Vietnamese perspective, which is obviously something that you can't advise us in. And then I speak to my other friends who have experienced it as well from that kind of like victim survivor mentality, right, and I think what's really special about our relationship is that one, I come to you, especially in terms of the intimacy, the side effects, the disassociation, and also just to feel held, like you're very good at just like letting me chat all the time, but you've never once made me feel like I wasn't putting you - like oh, how dare you not put me first, letting me be the one that you always go to about this problem and understanding that you can't necessarily fill that need for me in every aspect. And I think you overlook that a lot when you talk about ways you support me, that that is one of the biggest ones. That’s interesting. Obviously, like we've opened up quite a lot about our relationship and we really hope if you're going through something similar or thinking about going through something similar, all we ask is that you tell one person, just say, by the way, we've seen this series, it really helps us to spread the word and I think it helps you to plant the seed for other people. And I think you'll be quite amazed at the kind of responses that you might get in response to that. And yeah, definitely use this episode as a way to think about how you might want to handle that. If that's something you want to look for in your relationship, if at all, and we’ll see you in the next episode. Thank you for coming. This is such a big deal for Tig, he never does things like this with me. This is how you know, it’s a topic close to our hearts.